Lone Wolf: the game of foolish heroes doomed to fail?

[SableWyvern]

Just wondering what the thought processes were at Mongoose when putting together the back cover blurb.

Statistics for dozens of terrible beasts and vile henchmen are given, to throw at those foolish enough to oppose the rise of the Darklord ... in a world destined to fall before the might of Helgedad and its shadowy hordes.

I'm guessing that this refers to the upcoming events of Flight from the Dark ... but even so, it still seems overly pessimistic.

 

[adgramaine]

to paraphrase an old proverb: everything gets worse before it can eventually get better.

never has it been more true than with LW during the times before the Massacre....

 

[redlaco]

It sounds right to me, I mean the setting have a dark overtone to it with Darklords scheming and encroaching on a few bastions of light.
And when the destruction of the Kai happens, it almost feels like the Midnight setting...

So, I think the back cover blurb does justice to the tone of the setting.
Just my two silver piecces.

 

[ArchMage]

Remember, it's your game. If you want the heroes to have a chance of stopping the destruction of the Kai, nothing stops you from doing so. A lot of RPG's out there need that kind of premise tweak to make them work. Let's say, most anything from White Wolf... :wink:

 

[SableWyvern]

Oh, I know it's my game, and I know how I'm going to run it.

I just don't think it can be said that Magnumund ever falls completely into the thrall of the Darklords (well, maybe during the prehistory), which is what the blurb strongly implies will happy.

And, while calling the heroes "foolish" is probably meant with some irony, in the context of the rest of the paragraph, it comes across much more literally.

Not that it's that important, and my view doesn't seem to be that of others anyway, so ... I'll just have to come to terms with it, I guess.

 

[Winter Wolf]

The eight years that Lone Wolf was in the Dazairn it came pretty close the Darklords had overrun most of Northern Magnamund. :shock:

 

[SableWyvern]

Ah yes, I vaguely recall that, now that you mention it. That will be interesting, when my PCs get to that stage of the series... :twisted:

I still stand by original assertion, however. 8)

Like I said, it's really not that important.

 

[August]

*refraining from comment, lest he rant*

 

[adgramaine]

RANT!RANT!RANT!

I know I wanna! But alas, I have an Anniversery Game to plan, so I haven't the time....

Still I stand by the fact that Magnamund has always been a HEROIC and DARK FANTASY world since day one. It ain't like it's Shrek, or even Grim's Faerie Tales, ya know? Heroes are supposed to fight oppresive odds, that's why they're called HEROES (even when they die trying, ESP. when they die trying)...

damn...
i ranted a bit there didn't I....

 

[SableWyvern]

*refraining from comment, lest he rant*

RANT!RANT!RANT!

I too, wish to hear this rant.


Oh, and Adgramaine, I do agree, as I have mentioned elsewhere, that there is certainly a consistently dark undertone to Magnamund, often hiding only just below a thin veneer of more typical high fantasy.


Ooh ... just noticed this:

which is what the blurb strongly implies will happy

:? :shock: :roll:

Did I really write that?

 

[adgramaine]

*refraining from comment, lest he rant*

RANT!RANT!RANT!

I too, wish to hear this rant.




Ooh ... just noticed this:

which is what the blurb strongly implies will happy

:? :shock: :roll:

Did I really write that?

um...didn't i say it clear just a bit ago?

Still I stand by the fact that Magnamund has always been a HEROIC and DARK FANTASY world since day one. It ain't like it's Shrek, or even Grim's Faerie Tales, ya know? Heroes are supposed to fight oppresive odds, that's why they're called HEROES (even when they die trying, ESP. when they die trying)...

it seems i did... I really don't want to launch into it more than I have, but I guess I opened this can of worms, so I should shut up and deal, right?
Ahem... <rant>your point of your original post seems to question the frame of Mongoose's collective minds when they wrote the "pessimistic blurb" on the back cover, yes?
Well, I know the answer to their thought processes - they were trying to stay as close to the game books as possible, and honor the years of entertainment Joe Dever/Ian Page's mythic collection of game books has brought us one and all, fans of the original books unite! They were dark, gritty tales that often killed the hero character (Lone Wolf and Grey Star - level of lethality varied per series and individual books) before we were able to complete their valiant quests. They WERE hard to survive, they WERE pessimistic, and they WERE dark and overbearing, but we played them, the gluttons of punishment we are, and we LOVED THEM! We still to this day love them, else we'd be spending more time with our significant others and other friends, worrying about work and taxes and the inflation of cigarette prices rather than coming to this site and talking about these books and adventures we loved for oh so very long.... cause if you notice, even though this Board is for the Mongoose D20 LW RPG, a LOT of the topics revert back to the "old school fans" who have read all the gamebooks, own most of them, and would never think of calling the game anything other than what it is...
GREAT
</rant>
Now, Sable, I am not meaning for this to come across as a mean and harsh thing. I am simply stating my opinion, and what is assuredly the opinion of a few other board members out there as well. And I hope you can respect that. I certainly respect your opinion of the view as well. As to the reason of the rant in the first place, well....

I too, wish to hear this rant.

...you asked for it :lol:
literally
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this rant was brought to you by a man who was smiling the entire time and in no way was angry or intending to come across as hostile

 

[SableWyvern]

Actually, I was asking for August's rant.

In response to your own:

First up, I had no idea that my original post would create any controversy at all. Although it specificaly does question the frame of mind of the writers, it was intended as no more than an honest question, asking "why was it done this way?"

As I have also tried to get across, I agree with your general perspective on the dark nature of Lone Wolf. I just happened to find that the specifics of the blurb didn't mesh perfectly with my impressions of the game books.

I am still of the opinion that Magnumund is not "destined to fall before the might of the Helgedad". However, as I have also tried to make clear, I realise that this is more a point of personal perspective and interpretation than anything else. Further, based on the limited anecdotal evidence of this thread, my interpretation is the one in the minority.

Finally, as I have stated, in the grand scheme of things, the whole issue is not greatly significant (ie, the issue of wording on the blurb, not whether or not Magnumund is a dark setting).


As an aside, I find it interesting that you saw Lone Wolf's multiple "deaths" in the fashion you describe. To me, all those "deaths" never really happened (in the overarching story), once Lone Wolf had survived through on the final play. While I may have had a series of marks on the side of my character sheet where I scored myself on each book, aiming for the lowest number of attempts possible, those failures never entered into my thinking when viewing the story as a complete whole.

 

[adgramaine]

Actually, I was asking for August's rant.
As an aside, I find it interesting that you saw Lone Wolf's multiple "deaths" in the fashion you describe. To me, all those "deaths" never really happened (in the overarching story), once Lone Wolf had survived through on the final play. While I may have had a series of marks on the side of my character sheet where I scored myself on each book, aiming for the lowest number of attempts possible, those failures never entered into my thinking when viewing the story as a complete whole.

Is that how it came across? Sorry, I was running late for a meet, and should have clarified. No, that's not how I saw it at all, and I ran the books much as you describe yourself, only I never kept a tally

And you're right, it's not a critical or important point of order, but still any good observation opens itself for interpretation, and in turn, possible rants.
Even if they're little off-topic rants.

And yeah, I'd like to see August's rant too

 

[August]

<chuckle>

Sorry, guys. Ranting is unseemly, and something I do too often for my own liking.

Suffice to say, I stand by the wording of the text. The only approval I really needed for it came when J.D. looked over the book, read that section (and others) and gave it a full (and glowing, ) endorsement.

I figure if the creator of the setting liked the wording, that's all I need.

As for your opinion, Sable, you are certainly entitled to it and I'm glad you shared it with us. That's the great thing about a message board; everyone has the chance to air their grievances and dislikes.

-A

 

[Wordmaker]

Okay, say Magnamund is doomed (ish). The Kai will fall in 50 years. That certainty (unless you choose to run an alternate-storyline campaign, which is cool) should mean that the heroes facing these odds are even more heroic, because their players know that they are fighting something they cannot change. They are fighting not because they can win, but because it is the right thing to do.

Have them fight, have them fall. Let them see the banners of the Kai burned to ash and their comrades pitched on spears by hordes of Giaks.

Then let one or two survive.

And let them rise again, to rebuild what was lost and kick some Darklord @ss!

 

[August]

Precisely, Wordmaker, precisely...

<or to quote Raiden>

Finally, one of them understands.

-August

 

[redlaco]

That certainty (unless you choose to run an alternate-storyline campaign, which is cool) should mean that the heroes facing these odds are even more heroic, because their players know that they are fighting something they cannot change. They are fighting not because they can win, but because it is the right thing to do.

That reminds me how close this whole ambience feels like the one found in the Midnight d20 setting from Fantasy Flight. If you're into dark toned fantasy, you should definitely check it out. I know it's a little off topic, but the feeling of impending doom and unbeatable odds are definitely there just like in LW.

 

[Holmes]

Have them fight, have them fall. Let them see the banners of the Kai burned to ash and their comrades pitched on spears by hordes of Giaks.

Then let one or two survive.

And let them rise again, to rebuild what was lost and kick some Darklord @ss!

Or possibly saving a certain young Initiate... by whacking 'im in the head with a tree branch (using Nexus) prior to getting strangled by Zagarna 'iself? :wink:

That is, if you want the PC to feel like they had a hand in the events of the canon story? (Personally, I reckon that would be a heckuva way to cap a campaign)

 

[Paido]

Or possibly saving a certain young Initiate... by whacking 'im in the head with a tree branch (using Nexus) prior to getting strangled by Zagarna 'iself? :wink: [...] a heckuva way to cap a campaign

You know what? I really like that thought ...


Paido

 

[Arandur]

Hmmm...there are actually a lot of great RPG settings that in essence share this kind of pre-anihilation setting or the 'overwhelming enemy scenario'.

In my mind the Star Wars RPG, which in no matter what three (suggested) eras of play the characters are in, they are in the midst of an almost unwinnable battle (Rebellion or New Jedi Order) or on the verge of utter anihilation (Clone wars era shortly before the Jedi Purges). But does this discourage folks from playing Jedi in that era? Or from playing the game at all? In my experience not in the least, in fact many of them like that idea, it has a kind of dark heroism to it.

Dragonlance is another setting that comes to mind, the world is still reeling from the Cataclysm in many ways and is plunged into a war against a clearly superior enemy. Midnight (as mentioned above) is another one, and Dark Sun! I mean c'mon who actually thought their character would have any chance opposing a Sorceror-King but still tried anyway?

And the list goes on with Earthdawn (horrors! *shudders*), Middle-Earth, Call of Cthulhu, Cyperpunk and Shadowrun (The vast megacorporations), and lets not forget the mightiest of foes...the sheer insane number of tables in a Rolemaster campaign (sorry couldn't resist!)

Come to think of it these are some of both my own and my gaming groups favourite settings, it gives the party a reason to band together and play as characters who work to achieve something beyond their next spell or magical weapon, to play as heroes instead of coin and fame seeking adventurers, which in my book is what I enjoy both playing and running.

Arandur