Lesser Legendary Abilities

[Cleokatrah]

Hi. I'm new in the Runequest field of things, and I've haunted the site for about a week or so. I'll be running a pbp custom game, but since me and the players want a little more power, I thought giving them 'lesser legendary' abilities would be appropiate. However, I'm not fluent enough to know what impact these will have on the game, or if they're manageable. I'm looking for some input and I appreciate the time anyone takes to oblige me.


Feat (cost)
Prereq:
Description
(If any of the above is not complete, I'm still pondering)


Ambidexterity (10)
Prereq: DEX 14+
Take no penalties with your off hand.

Blind Fight (10)
Prereq: Carrot Top or Perception +70%
When you miss from concealment, roll again.

Carrot Top (10)
Prereq: You must know the speaker of this line: "What's up, doc?"
You ate so many carrots when you were little that you your parents are surprised you haven't turned orange. Gain Night Sight (partial darkness becomes illuminated, and illuminated becomes partial darknes).

Cleave (12)
Prereq: STR 14, Weapon Skill +70%
Your swing is so powerful that when it drops foes, it keeps going. Any enemy standing adjacent to you when strike a killing blow, and still have damage leftover, must make a successful reaction roll to your original attack -20% or receives the rest of the damage. Nearby allies are not threatened by other allies with cleave.

Promote Wilderness Stealth (10)
Prereq: Trackless Step, CHA 12
Your diligence rubs off on those you instruct. By making a persistence roll (DC set by DM), you may share your 'trackless step' benefit with others (One character + one per every CHA point over 12). Enemies tracking your group take a -20% penalty.

Quick (8 ) ?
Prereq: Dex 14
Increase your speed by 2 meters. Can only be taken once.

Quick Draw (8 )
Prereq: DEX 14
Draw or Sheathe a weapon as a free action.

Quick Recoverer (8 )
Prereq: Resilience +70% or Healing +70%
You heal 2 HP/day instead of 1.

Rapid Reload (8 )
PreReq: DEX 14
Lessen the amount of combat actions it takes to reload a weapon by 1. This ability may be taken up to two times.

Smite (12)
Prereq:
Sacrifice all your remaining combat actions for a single, heroic effort. 1 combat action = +20% added to your attack or +2 to damage. No limit to the amount of combat actions you may sacrifice, and you may divide the percentage up as you see fit.

Trackless Step (12)
Prereq: Woodland Stride, DEX 14,
Any effort to track you in the wilderness is done with a -40% penalty.

• 
  
  Two arrows at once (12)
  Prereq: Appropiate Weapon Skill +70%
  By taking a small penalty to you precision (-20% to your Attack), you may fire two arrows at the same time. Both arrows require seperate location and damage rolls.
  
  Two Weapon Fighting (12)
  Prereq: Appropiate Weapon Skill +70%, Ambidexterity
  When wielding two weapons for which this ability applies to, you may make one extra attack in a single combat action at the expense of one action. For example, if John carries a quarterstaff and has two weapon fighting and 3 combat actions, he can move in the first round and attack twice in the second using his full attack percentage, but he loses his third action.
  
  Woodland Stride (8 )
  Prereq: Lore (wilderness) +70%
  Your movement penalty when moving through adverse conditions in the wild is lessened by 25% (to a maximum of 0). This ability may be taken up to three times and stacks with previous purchases.

 

[weasel_fierce]

These look pretty good, though the costs are rather high, compared to some of the stuff in Legendary heroes

 

[philreed]

I've been considering writing 101 Heroic and Legendary Abilities. We'll see how my first PDF does before I start, though.

 

[Rurik]

I've been considering writing 101 Heroic and Legendary Abilities. We'll see how my first PDF does before I start, though.

Now I realize this board may not be the best sampling of customers out there but there seem to be two types:*

1) People from a d20 background who think MRQ is cool new system (IMHO any version of RQ is cooler than D&D, so hopefully we'll get lots of these). They Like things like Legendary Abilities.

2) Crusty old RQ Grognards, many of whom hate D&D, even if they haven't looked at it since 1E AD&D. They hate things like Legendary Abilities - as has been mentioned in another thread they may not like things like special abilities for Professions.

So far the couple of releases you have appeal to group 1, not so much to group 2.

A supplement such as an adventure, or even a collection of NPC's with detailed combat stats ready to be used, would appeal to both groups. RQ is very stat heavy, GM's never tire of having prepared foes. Maybe even a Hybrid, such as a Mercenary book, with a 'Cult' adaptation or two of Mercenary Companies, some variations on the Mercenary Profession (with optional Bonus Abilities) and then a couple of Mercenary Bands ready to use. Such a supplement would be of great utility to all players.

Just my two cents.**


* Admitedly Gross Oversimplification

** As I have no actual experience at publishing RPG supplements or Marketing feel free to ignore.

 

[Cleokatrah]

These look pretty good, though the costs are rather high, compared to some of the stuff in Legendary heroes

The cost can be up to the DM, of course, and it can always be countered by giving out more hero points. More than look at the cost, look at the cost ratio, as in should an 8 hero point ability be on the bottome of the scale, or higher? You can adjust the scale to fit your game. What I want to know is if the ratio is fair or not, or if these are overpowered for an RQ game.

To be particular, in my game, the characters will have these these creation guidelines:

Skills: Raise any 3 +20, any 4 +10, and any 4 +5. Choose 3 advanced skills. Raise ALL skills +10, then spend 200 free points. The max is 70%. So in my case, I don't think the abilities are expensive at all, but in lower campaigns, you might want to bring the cost down by 3 or so.

What I am looking for is input on whether these abilities would work or not with the RQ rules, or if they might be over/under powered.

Also, let me give a note about the 2 weapon fighting ability. I've read a thread or two here that discusses this issue, and the fundamentals were understandable and fair, in that a character takes increasing penalties, but I didn't feel that system quite captured the 2WF feat. In my version, you must take 2 abilities for the privilege, and you get your two simlutaneous attacks, but it costs you. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for the replies. They are appreciated.

 

[weasel_fierce]

I think the powers are generally cool. They seem to fall into the "usefull" rather than "must have" catagories, which is just where it should be at, IMO

 

[Exubae]

They hate things like Legendary Abilities - as has been mentioned in another thread they may not like things like special abilities for Professions.

I don't think hate is the right word - Its just the Legendary abilities are out of context of a game world- i.e no integration has been shown, they may recieved better when they appear within Glorantha.

- I've been toying with making them cult secrets, Using HQ cults as a template - feats are Divine magic, and the secret is a legendary ability. Probably not used as intended, but until the 'official' books hit the shelves its how I intend to run it. Things seem to fit quite well... (Had to tweak divine magic and spirit combat, but other wise things seem fine)

Experience models
The thing with 'old' RQ everything on the character sheet used follow a steady even growth, directed by the characters action

MRQ tends to allow a more random approach to character improvement- not so much dependant on PC action as XP acrual and whim of the player. Legendary abilities follow this 'Fit and burst' style development.

Nothing bad with this it is just different, and takes a bit to get into.
Though I do find the 'line' between legendary and normal characters a bit like a level divide... I would prefer it to more blured.

Abilities for Professions
Biggest worry is the perception of Professions as classes, which they aren't or at least they in the past incarnations of RQ they're not. They're just what your character used to get up too in the past - development is free from artificial stereotypical straight jackets.
If you character wants to keep up his skills as a tailor, or go in to farming, butchery, flower arranging, etc. I can't see a problem, but the abilities shouldn't enforce stereo types IMHO.

Alternative Ways of treating Legendary abiliities
Another thought that has come to my group, is to lower the hero point cost of the ability but impose a negative penalty to the skill for use of the ability... in a way this keys the ability to the skill - but it really only a flavour thing.
The other thing is that a lot of the abilitites could be allocated a skill, i.e
Fast Draw would be more 'fun' as a skill with an associated contested action.

 

[Cleokatrah]

Integration
Any abilities a character has should integrate with a character, not with the world, IMO, though if they are out of context with the world, they should definately not be accepted. As in a magic-less world doesn't have Runequesters or a desert based character doesn't all of a sudden get 'forest walk' or something similar. I am actually not a fan of premade worlds, and I don't own any Gloranthia books so I can't answer to this in depth, so I apologize. The reason I picked up Runequest was basically for its mechanics and high customization asset.

Experience Models
This is easy to get around. Make the LAs 3 step abilities, or somethign they gradually grow into, not something they get al at once. This has always been one of the wackier things about d20 and the idea of leveling up. "Look at me! All of a sudden I can haste 3x/day, wee!" I agree that it breaks the flow and is too clunky for those who like playing with realism. I've always made it imperative for my players to tell me where/how they'd like to develop to their character and encouraged them to roleplay the learning of feats.

Professions
I wasn't fond of them until I looked at them that way. I thought it was too restrictive, like d20 classes. Some of the abilities, even if they fit the profession, don't fit the personality you had in mind for your character. I hate the way preset classes and skill sets force you to compromise your original character idea.

Your way, however, makes sense.

Alternative ways...
I like that ^_~

 

[Exubae]

Integration
Any abilities a character has should integrate with a character, not with the world, IMO, though if they are out of context with the world, they should definately not be accepted. As in a magic-less world doesn't have Runequesters or a desert based character doesn't all of a sudden get 'forest walk' or something similar. I am actually not a fan of premade worlds, and I don't own any Gloranthia books so I can't answer to this in depth, so I apologize. The reason I picked up Runequest was basically for its mechanics and high customization asset.

Didn't really explain myself too well; yes the abiltiy should integrate with the character but should also be some context to the gameworld when introduced to play;
As a list of 'abilities' they are disjointed, when put in context of the setting they become in context and more acceptable to myself (as being one of the crusty old RQ'ers).
Not saying you need to have a pre-made world, but extended examples of how the abilities could be gained within a vanilla setting would be cool.

Experience Models
... "Look at me! All of a sudden I can haste 3x/day, wee!" I agree that it breaks the flow and is too clunky for those who like playing with realism...

That about hits the nail on the head, for my major gripe against LA's
Its the all or nothing aspect over the traditional steady growth of old style RQ characters.
However, if you can get a reasonable context for the characters to gain said powers it lessens that gripe a great deal. (Thus my current plans to use them as cult secrets and abilities gained only through Hero Questing.)

 

[philreed]

1) People from a d20 background who think MRQ is cool new system (IMHO any version of RQ is cooler than D&D, so hopefully we'll get lots of these). They Like things like Legendary Abilities.

Agreed, and that's exactly the market my first two releases target. After all, it's important to grow the market and creating products that appeal to the largest segment of the RPG audience is one way to do that.

Maybe even a Hybrid, such as a Mercenary book, with a 'Cult' adaptation or two of Mercenary Companies, some variations on the Mercenary Profession (with optional Bonus Abilities) and then a couple of Mercenary Bands ready to use. Such a supplement would be of great utility to all players.

I've got Knightly Orders and Mercenary Companies in the works but it's not yet ready. My thinking is that, from the outside looking in, the game still needs players and one way to attract those players is by embracing the fact that the RQ SRD is for a basic fantasy system and not any specific world. Material that plugs into almost any setting, so that D&D players looking to try a new system have some tools available to help make RQ feel a little more familiar and so that they have what they need to make the leap from one system and bring their chosen campaign setting along for the ride.

I fully understand that what I've done so far doesn't appeal to long-time RQ fans. But there is nothing that says I have to attempt to tap into that existing market and should not try to give my current d20 customers a reason to give the new RQ a shot. After all, growing the market for RQ products of any sorts simply helps everyone involved, from publishers to players.

Sorry, this got a bit longer and more rambling than I had planned.

 

[RosenMcStern]

I strongly suggest that all of you get a copy of the old RQ3 supplement "Land of Ninja" and have a look at the special samurai skills and the Ki skill system. You will find that such feats as Fast Draw can be simply treated as skills (with the appropriate weapon: you cannot FD a mace!).

The Ki skills work a lot like Phil Reed's legendary abilities, in that they often require the expenditure of MPs and allow the user feats that are normally not possible for a human being. They also have the prerequisite of being 90% or more with the "basic" skill, which is similar to the MRQ LA mechanics. Finally, they all start at 5% and go up like normal skills, softening that "all or nothing" sensation that most of you have reported.

In the example given, a young and unarmored Miyamoto Musashi (THE legendary hero of Japan) survives an ambush on the part of several fully armored ninjas by using his super-powered Fast Draw and Kenjutsu skills (and plenty of Magic Points to just activate the powers).

So I wonder: if this skill-oriented approach to the subject of superhuman feats works, as it does, and what we want is to create new exciting superhuman abilities that our PCs can learn, why are we all developing new LAs instead of new skills?

Last Note: Cleokatrah, try and just give your PCs veteran or hero starting level like suggested by the rules, and allow them to exchange something for something else (i.e. some attuned runes for additional Hero Points or vice versa). Sometimes the standard options are enough to create the characters you wish.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

I suppose it's pretty cool if that's what you want, but the very notion of being able to "buy" ambidexterity (for example) at any stage post-generation presses all the wrong buttons with me. >shudder<

 

[Zotzz]

Why wouldnt a character be able to learn ambidexterity?

Anyone with practice can learn to overcome thier natural handedness. Granted its a bit strange at first but it can be learned. I look at the RPG ambidexterity ability as have learned to overcome your natural handedness rather then true natural amidexterity.

 

[Trifletraxor]

I don't think hate is the right word - Its just the Legendary abilities are out of context of a game world- i.e no integration has been shown, they may recieved better when they appear within Glorantha.

It IS the right word! HATE the stuff! :x

FEATS!!!

SGL.

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

FEATS!!!

Or, to be fair, Merits in the Storytelling system, and pretty much any RPG with additional benefits you can bolt on to a character.

That's not to say I'm running in favour of 'lesser' Legendary Abilities, here. I'm just saying that a lot of RPGs have additional bonuses like these to flesh out character sheets and offer a few l'il extras.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

That's not to say I'm running in favour of 'lesser' Legendary Abilities, here. I'm just saying that a lot of RPGs have additional bonuses like these to flesh out character sheets and offer a few l'il extras.

<your mum> If lots of RPG's jumped off a cliff, would you do too?</your mum>

I'm not convinced that a set of "bolt-on" advantages are a good fit for a skill driven game like RQ

 

[Dead Blue Clown]

That's not to say I'm running in favour of 'lesser' Legendary Abilities, here. I'm just saying that a lot of RPGs have additional bonuses like these to flesh out character sheets and offer a few l'il extras.

<your mum> If lots of RPG's jumped off a cliff, would you do too?</your mum>

I'm not convinced that a set of "bolt-on" advantages are a good fit for a skill driven game like RQ

Me either. Hence the bit in bold. I sure don't use these, though I've no grudge against those who would.

But that's not my point.

My point is that sometimes people will believe something is done purely to be more like D&D, and that's not necessarily true.

 

[Exubae]

I'm not convinced that a set of "bolt-on" advantages are a good fit for a skill driven game like RQ

I kind of like the idea of Legendary abilities but not too struck on how they've been applied - all or othing style approach.
Would have prefered a skill oriented approach, like land of Ninja's Ki skills with graduated growth of ability.
The 'all or nothing' approach just isn't or should I say wasn't RQ.

On the ambidextrous side of thing, we always a d6 (left) and d12 (right), the highest was the dominant hand, if equal ambidextrous... no skill or legendary trait there.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

Why wouldnt a character be able to learn ambidexterity?

Anyone with practice can learn to overcome thier natural handedness. Granted its a bit strange at first but it can be learned. I look at the RPG ambidexterity ability as have learned to overcome your natural handedness rather then true natural amidexterity.

That's all very true, but there is also a perfectly good skill system which can cover this without having to introduce a "Feat" for it. Anyway, it's misleading to focus on Ambidexterity here, as I did say "for example". There are plenty of other attributes that you're either born with or not, or that are a product of your upbringing (a natural aptitude with Languages, for example), and that cannot be retrospectively acquired; as well as other items that are already covered perfectly well by the skills system, which are what my objection is towards.

For what it's worth, most of the other items on the list seem fine to a "Feat"-hater like me. Advanced combat techniques which are not covered by the skills system are a logical and sensible thing to include.

Sorry about coming across a bit strong on this, but it is something that gets my blood boiling. Anyway, I'm bowing out as I'm contributing nothing constructive here, and don't want to derail the thread. Maybe we should start another to discuss this kind of thing?

 

[Cleokatrah]

LOL. I can see I've stepped on a feat no-no here, which I somewhat expected after stalking the threads for a bit. I feel the urge to clarify I'm not a dnd feat monger, though, so let me give it a shot.

This is a very, very low magic campaign I will be running, and it will be using the MRQ system, but there will be no runes. The reason for low magic is that it's a pre-existing world that's been in my head for some time and I would like to be as true to it as possible. The feat idea is to make up for this, and give the players some sense of heroics without magic. And players are meant to choose a general direction their characters will be taking, and keep to the theme. Therefore, there's no random feat taking just because of a 'cool' factor.

I actually tried this with making some new skills, but I came to a wall so I went feat way habitually. Some of the combat abilities don't work as skills but some of the others in the list might.

Ambidexterity? not quite sure how that would work.

Woodland Stride would be an easy skill, but this could easily be Stealth.

I've looked for custom skill but I haven't seen much.

The short of it is that, feats and skills aside, I wanted to give the players a sense of heroics. What I come up with, here, is only meant to be a guideline. I prefer it when they come up with their own. Perhaps I should not offer anything and just see where they go, and build some custom features for each one? For instance, I have one that will play a seductress. The persistence skill would probably work for that but having a 'seduction' skill could be funner.

Thanks for the input, and I'm thinking on it.