Klingon D7 model

[scoutdad]

as one of those with literally thousands of SFB minis - I for oone can't wait for ACTA: SF and the new minis.
With some caveats...
I intend to play ACTA using my collection of ST2400 minis for most fleet engagements and will purchase many of the ST2500 minis for use with SFB and Fed Comm.

The difference in bases is not an insurmountable issue either as I am slowly but surely rebasing all of my current minis with the Ninja Magia adapters. A couple dozen hex base satands and lot of magnetic adapters and I'm good to good. To make ACTA work... I just need to prep a coup;le dozen round, Mongoose stands too. As long as I triple check the polarity of the magnets - swapping bases will not be an issue.

 

[katadder]

using your hex stands for ACTA is not a problem as all measurements are from the stem anyway

 

[Rambler]

As I have stayed the big issue with mini sizes is going to come down to space. Yes as Ian points out the scenarios are written to use 12 to 15 Map Panels, BUT, the Federation Commander is sold with only 6. The 1/3125 scale CAs and D7s work alright on this area as they measure in at roughly 3 & 3/4inches and 3inches. But look at the larger size minis. (Scoutdad if you could measure your B10, C8, and Juggy I would appreciate it)

A Fed DNG becomes 4.11 inches (105mm) and the CV(o) becomes 5.29inches (135mm). If the 4inch D7 holds the CV(o) is now 7inches (179mm) and we still need the numbers on the B10 and Juggy (Depending on what size they use because the thing scales out almost as big as a Billiards Table.)

Also as far as the Starline 2400 pewter line goes. Yes ADB will continue to support it as a Mail Order only product. They will not be shipping them to Wholesalers or Distributors.

So Now we are back to the only Minis on the Market to support Fed Com and SFB will be 2500s and they need to stay reasonable enough to deploy about 6 to 12 of them in a 22'x 25.5' area. Sure people like my self and Scoutdad can probably Panel the floor of a small room with just our own Panels. I also use a Hotz Art 4x6 Nebula Mat with 2inch hexes on one side and open on the reverse. So please know I am not making the case for myself.

So I do fully understand how Free Movement Miniature Games work. I can use a Protractor, String, and Laser Pointer with the best of them and I have played whole fleet battles using Poker Chips, Paper Clips and Bottle Caps as stand ins.

As has been stated before in the end, SVC and Matt will decide the scale. But if you start pushing for 4” D7 or Bigger quite a few FedCom/SFB players are going to start getting really restless.

Personal Note: I am already banking up enough money to buy the Fleet Boxes ASAFP so I can get them Painted and use them Demoing Fed Com and ACTAs.

 

[Lawn Dart]

But if you start pushing for 4” D7 or Bigger quite a few FedCom/SFB players are going to start getting really restless.

But how will Fedcom/ADB fans "getting really restless" affect sales of larger miniatures, especially if the new ones are much better looking than the 2400? I'm a Romulan fan, but loathe the current design of the hawk ships and would replace my current 2400 miniatures in any scale if the models looked better. Personally, I want larger miniatures so that they can have more detail and look better once painted.

 

[Jean]

Iain, the point of my post was to reassure some of our players who are visiting Mongoose's boards that we are not saying on our boards, "Yes, the 2400 line is safe as long as you continue to buy them," and over here we're letting it be said that the 2500 line will supplant the older minis (suggesting perhaps, that the 2400 line will quietly be let go). No stealthy sliding of the 2400 minis into that good night!

That said, there is a mixture of joy and dread being expressed by some over on ADB's boards. The players all love the detail. Some of them are worried that playing with the minis will become cumbersome in our games if the size becomes too great. "Let them buy new mats AND new minis" is not likely to fly well in this economy (at least from what my marketing whiskers are telling me). Likewise, Mongoose wants new customers and that means the minis need to meet those needs as well.

I feel confident that Matthew and SVC will arrive at a happy medium of useable detail and size. Both are experienced and practical businessmen and will do something that will benefit both companies.

 

[scoutdad]

Joy and dread... that's me.
And I'm one of the lucky ones. As Dal previously pointed out, I could legitimately panel the floor of my game room with map panels... and my gaming table is an old conferencetable from a yard sale (12' by 4').

I want the new minis (details, more stuff to paint, etc.), but I wish they would either keep the existing sclae or try to stay close. ACTA is set-up for these sixe minis, but even with the 1:3788 scale that currently is in use, a hex map sometimes gets crowded. Larger minis on the same hex grid will be "frustrating" to say the least.

I'm sure that Steve Cole and Mathew Sprange have considered this from all angles, but I know several people who are put off at the current size of the minis... much less 33% larger ones.

And again, I'm one of hte lucky ones. I have two starmats with 2" hexes already. I'd hate to have to purchase all new FEdComm map panels wiht larger hexes...

 

[Da Boss]

ACTA works with pretty much all sizes of ships - the Noble Armada ships are small so that system does not designate the ship size..........

I am quite impresed by the new ST ships shown thus far - although need to see them in the flesh however I am massively underwhelmed by the current SFU range so I will be very interested to see what MGP does when it moves beyond the on screen ships...............

 

[scoutdad]

The problem isn't ACTA working with ship sizes, it's the other way 'round.

Federation Commander requires (well, there are rules for hexless movement, but few use them) a hex-based map system.
We've already worked out that with the clear plastic of the Mongoose style stands, the circular shape will not be a problem as the hex grid can still be seen underneath the base.

The problem is the 1.25" hexes used by FC. Two ships, each ~3 inches long in adjacent hexes; tend to bump into to each other and look "wonky" on the map. The concern is, "How much will this issue be exacerbated when using two ships that are 33% larger?

I can easily use the 2" starmaps I have, or switch to hesless movement.
I can forsee a great uprising if every one is told, "Go buy these new map panels so you can use the new miniatures!"

 

[Da Boss]

The problem isn't ACTA working with ship sizes, it's the other way 'round.

Yeah I get that - What I meant was larger ships are not needed for ACTA - so they can make them to fit with SFB etc if they so wish.

I prefer the larger scale myself - so 3-4" for cruisers, 5-6 for the really big ships............

 

[scoutdad]

Aha! Sorry. I misunderstood the context of your statement.

I would like to see the largerscale myself as it lends itself to more detailing.
Of course, I also happen to have a few thousand of hte Starline 2400 minis already, so I can continue to use them and the existing maps... as well as fight out huge ACTA fleet battles! 8)

 

[Greg Smith]

I was always in favour of using AoGs Fleet Action scale minis for B5 ACTA. They are cheaper, easier to paint and easier to transport. But they don't look as good.

Somewhere in between will suit me.

 

[Rambler]

I am quite impresed by the new ST ships shown thus far - although need to see them in the flesh however I am massively underwhelmed by the current SFU range so I will be very interested to see what MGP does when it moves beyond the on screen ships...............

We actually get that a lot :wink: You have to look at the source material to realize how cool these ships really are. These ships were designed almost 30 years ago to imitate Special Effect and Modeling from 45 years ago. When these designs were created there was just barely a Industrial Lights and Magic, and there was no Ridley Scott “Nostromo”.

A lot of people go, oh well there kinda of bland. Yes they are and so was the original Federation Connie, Klingon D Hulls, Romulan Warbirds or Tholians Patrol Corvette. Even the Botany Bay is a amazing under achievement let alone K7. The Starline 2400s stand in well with the class of ships they are suppose to represent.

Fast forward to today. Mongoose and ADB are using 3D CAD models to make new masters and in the process hopefully adding just a little bit of flash and bling. But remember they have to be real careful not to take the design in the same direction a certain franchise went. That said people are going to be real picky about Klingon D6s and D7s as well as their variants. Also under this scrutiny probably wil be the D5s, C7s, Romulan Warbirds, Battlehawks, and Snipes. Once those are settled and Mongoose moves on to the more exclusive ADB races and designs i am sure a little more latitude will probably be used. We have to realize the base designs are already set so don't look for some kind of radical re-imaging of the existing lines. But if the same attitude is taken with the Gorn and the Kzinti that was used with this D6 then these ships are going to rock. Also remember that ADB used a Base Hull for a lot of different minis. Mongoose actually wants to produce some of those variants so it should be cool to see where they try to push the designs.

 

[Da Boss]

I am quite impresed by the new ST ships shown thus far - although need to see them in the flesh however I am massively underwhelmed by the current SFU range so I will be very interested to see what MGP does when it moves beyond the on screen ships...............

Yes they are and so was the original Federation Connie, Klingon D Hulls, Romulan Warbirds or Tholians Patrol Corvette. Even the Botany Bay is a amazing under achievement let alone K7. The Starline 2400s stand in well with the class of ships they are suppose to represent.

Hmm maybe - I like the ships mentioned above - no issues there - however I looked at the presetn models for the non show ships and couldn't really find any I liked. I looked at my old FASA ST boxed set which portrayed ships not shown on screen from same era and went yep -they are sexy looking models and images.

For instance their Gorn vessels look as I imagined the SFU ships would do from their descriptions of tough brick like vessels.
eg:

http://planetside.firenebula.com/startrek/ships.php?id=306

The Federation continued the design ethos but to my eyes with more flair than the present SFU series.

http://planetside.firenebula.com/startrek/ships.php?id=46

The Klingon ships have a nice variety of predatory designs etc.

 

[AdrianH]

A lot of people go, oh well there kinda of bland. Yes they are and so was the original Federation Connie, Klingon D Hulls, Romulan Warbirds or Tholians Patrol Corvette. Even the Botany Bay is a amazing under achievement let alone K7. The Starline 2400s stand in well with the class of ships they are suppose to represent.

It's not the level of detail which makes me go "Oh well, they're kind of bland". It's the way so many ships look almost the same. Especially the Klingons, almost all of whose ships look like the D-7 with minor detail differences. And many of the Federation ships look as though someone has taken the CA apart like a Lego kit and put the same bits together in different ways. I'd like to see what Mongoose does to the Federation CL, though.

The Romulans are better, with significant style differences between the Warbird, Condor and Skyhawk. I'd like to see Mongoose's versions of those, too.

 

[Rambler]

It's not the level of detail which makes me go "Oh well, they're kind of bland". It's the way so many ships look almost the same. Especially the Klingons, almost all of whose ships look like the D-7 with minor detail differences. And many of the Federation ships look as though someone has taken the CA apart like a Lego kit and put the same bits together in different ways. I'd like to see what Mongoose does to the Federation CL, though.

The Romulans are better, with significant style differences between the Warbird, Condor and Skyhawk. I'd like to see Mongoose's versions of those, too.

Adrian, take a look at the source material specifically the Star Fleet Technical Manual. The Lego analogy holds very true for the Federation Dreadnaught, Heavy Cruiser, Destroyer, Scout, and Tug. So this same philosophy applies to the rest of the SFU.

Also once someone finds a proven design most vehicles repeat it with very little variation. Look at a WW2 Era DC3 a Vietnam Era C130 and a Modern Day C17. Or take a look at Pick Up trucks designs since 1917. They all look basically look the same. A Engine Compartment up front, a Drivers Compartment in the middle and a Cargo Bed in the rear. Why would you assume this would change in Starship Construction in the Future?

As far as the Romulians go they started with one Build Philosophy (Warbirds), then bought Klingon Technology (Kestrals) and used it to design there 3rd Generation of Ships the (Hawks). The Condor is the odd duck. They took there existing Dreadnaught and Klingonized it. As far as why the Federation Old Ligh Cruiser and Police Corvette look different. Both designs predate the formation of a National Federation Fleet. They were origianlly Terran Naval Designs.

Now with that said I also am curious to see what they do to the lines as they make them. Specifically I want to see a Gorn Battlecruiser and what the Kzinti Battlecruiser look like. Warbirds mpffh, seen them repeatedly since the 70s but a Fire Hawk will be cool.

 

[BFalcon]

Personally, I'd like to see them go through in rough date order, so do the warbirds (specifically the War Eagle) and other contemporaries first, including some variants and then move forward.

True, as a Romulan fan, I'd miss out on the more advanced ships, but it would be probably fairest and allow us to build varied fleets, instead of having only a few ships of each type... and even the advanced fleets will have old warbird-style ships flying around either as second-line or rear-area patrol vessels... same will go for the other fleets.

Just because you don't like the look of some ships, doesn't mean to say that they're not useful to have around later...

And I can see where people are coming from, but sometimes I do like the simplistic designs of the older ST ships - too many sci-fi ships are complicated with bits sticking up here and there or too much detail... having a simple design does make a nice change...

 

[Ben2]

Old school Romulans all the way here as well.

Anyone know if Y2 covered the pre warbird Romulans?

 

[adm]

So far, Y1, Y2 and Y3, their are no Romulan Early Year designs before the Warbirds/Eagle series ships.

 

[Rambler]

The Warbird- is the Sub-light ship of the Romulans that has been steadily refited for the last 200 years. The Warbird was original deployed with sublight engines and lasers. Somewheres in the Middle Years they were refitted with phasers, tractor beams, and transporters but where still sublight. Once they signed a treaty with the Klingons the Romulans developed a set of warp engines that made the Warbirds into Wareagles. Wareagles were roughly comparable to most Empires Light Cruisers. Finally right before the General War they're ultimate expression of the Warbirds- became the Kingeagle which was equal to other Empires Heavy Cruisers. All of these ships were externally almot a 100% identical. The difference is what happened inside.

 

[Ben2]

Well unless there is a Y4 planned, that leaves space for us horrible grubby fans to put some stuff in.

Is the 1st Romulan War in Y40 covered in any detail by ADB? And the Y33 war between the Romulans and the Gorn?

Logically the Romulans would field pre-Warbird classes in at least their conflict with the Gorn, where it says both sides were using lasers and nuclear missiles.

I know Matt is unlikely to want to cover a period 135 years before the General War, but if we can get the whole Hawk series released it shouldn't be that hard to scratch build or whatever some earlier Romulan ships. We'll have the old Federation CLs as well, and we'll see what else can be found.