Juyaie. PDF Download, available now
- Thread starter H
- Start date
hiffano said:
The rest of the Crusade Era also have less hit points than that of other ships in the same PL (ignoring the command omega) eg the Marathon, Apollo and Chronos so its not out of character at all. I confess it should have had more interceptors but then it probably wouldnt have had much to hurt things with at all with defeats the purpose.
Enjoyed the pdf, cheers.
locarno24 said:
yup feel free to ask away.
Matt wasn't involved, he did at one stage say he would be ineterested in seeing any works, but when I contacted him about this one, he said to stick it on the forum and didn't seem too bothered about reading it. I kept the mail just in case ;-)
I'd like to think at some stage he might look through it, I'd love to see the Drakh ships make it to the next release somehow, or just stuck in S+P
Okay initial thoughts on a Bimith upgrade for the Drahk war.
Design goals were to keep the 'Defender' concept (preventing damage), space denial role (short range brawler) and Abbai philosophy of precision in the long range weapons (stop a fight before it begins by taking out weapons or engines?). I view them as only killing as a last resort when their own lives are in immanent danger, of course I could be wrong as they certainly are in danger long before range eight.
Concept One
Speed 7
Turn 1/45
Damage 30/6
Crew 45/9
Hull 5
Special Rules Anti-fighter 2, Interceptor 1, Lumbering, Shields 20/1D6
Troops 2
Craft 2 Kotha flights
Graviton Shifter 12 F
Quad Bolters 12 F 6 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Graviton Shifter 12 A
Quad Bolters 12 A 6 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Quad Bolters 12 P 10 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Quad Bolters 12 S 10 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Combat Laser (or Comm Disruptor) 15 T 3 Beam, Precise (or comm disr.)
The idea here is this ship comes out of the same program that produces the Brivioki. There is already a good bit of sharing between Brakiri and Abbai.
The escort trait will be of no use against the Drahk so is dropped (all with part of its anti-fighter dice) in favor of the shifters to force ships away from the precious Juyacas.
The same shield generator as the Juyaca is used, which brings the ship up to battle class for damage and crew.
The Kotha flights are added as they actually are potentially useful against the drahk and can still perform should the ships encounter a Raider or two.
Speed was reduced by the wieght and power requirements of the new systems. The ship lacks a jump drive, limiting it to fleet actions.
The turret seemed a good answer to the range 15 front and back usage I wanted without loading the ship up with weapons. I like the front and back due to the nimbleness of raiders, this ship becomes the real defense against ships running in behind or jumping in heavier units.
Anyway...that's some initial thoughts from me...
A pal of mine was more in favor of bigger Quad Bolters (16ish) to either side with small arrays front and back and the shifters. The idea is the ship defends by destroying the enemy with massed fire before it can get in good range of the core ships. I didn't like the idea based on not being very Abbai, and being tactically slightly unsound due to suicide runs being expensive with a ship this expensive. That and if the core ship is able to range the enemy, it can range back.
Ripple
Design goals were to keep the 'Defender' concept (preventing damage), space denial role (short range brawler) and Abbai philosophy of precision in the long range weapons (stop a fight before it begins by taking out weapons or engines?). I view them as only killing as a last resort when their own lives are in immanent danger, of course I could be wrong as they certainly are in danger long before range eight.
Concept One
Speed 7
Turn 1/45
Damage 30/6
Crew 45/9
Hull 5
Special Rules Anti-fighter 2, Interceptor 1, Lumbering, Shields 20/1D6
Troops 2
Craft 2 Kotha flights
Graviton Shifter 12 F
Quad Bolters 12 F 6 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Graviton Shifter 12 A
Quad Bolters 12 A 6 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Quad Bolters 12 P 10 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Quad Bolters 12 S 10 AP, Double Damage, Twin-Linked
Combat Laser (or Comm Disruptor) 15 T 3 Beam, Precise (or comm disr.)
The idea here is this ship comes out of the same program that produces the Brivioki. There is already a good bit of sharing between Brakiri and Abbai.
The escort trait will be of no use against the Drahk so is dropped (all with part of its anti-fighter dice) in favor of the shifters to force ships away from the precious Juyacas.
The same shield generator as the Juyaca is used, which brings the ship up to battle class for damage and crew.
The Kotha flights are added as they actually are potentially useful against the drahk and can still perform should the ships encounter a Raider or two.
Speed was reduced by the wieght and power requirements of the new systems. The ship lacks a jump drive, limiting it to fleet actions.
The turret seemed a good answer to the range 15 front and back usage I wanted without loading the ship up with weapons. I like the front and back due to the nimbleness of raiders, this ship becomes the real defense against ships running in behind or jumping in heavier units.
Anyway...that's some initial thoughts from me...
A pal of mine was more in favor of bigger Quad Bolters (16ish) to either side with small arrays front and back and the shifters. The idea is the ship defends by destroying the enemy with massed fire before it can get in good range of the core ships. I didn't like the idea based on not being very Abbai, and being tactically slightly unsound due to suicide runs being expensive with a ship this expensive. That and if the core ship is able to range the enemy, it can range back.
Ripple
I think the bimith hull certainly needs attention, currently it is too unwieldy and short ranged to be an overly effective raid choice, two milani's are better than a bimith by a huge degree (in my opinion the combat laser and kotha flights make the difference)
I worry that all the varients are turning into up-leveled bolter arrays of the same ship, lets take a look
Before the Juyaca, the abbai ships were a deterant, with massed close range fire power and precise beams to weaken the would be attacker at range.
currently the bimith needs the support of milani and lakaras to provide the long range fire power and since they bring their own quad arrays why take the bimith?
The easy answer is to give the Bimith a combat laser, but that means the ship is the same as every other abbai ship only a different size.
Next to create a raid level bolter varient, that is identicle to the existing varient but loses firepower for range, not a bad choice as a varient.
Another method is to create a IA/brakiri weapon varient, which is more tempting.
or change the quad arrays with a abbai global rule
So I propose:
Bimiari (Drahk war Combat Laser Varient)
Same as 2ed, but 4AD quad front and rear instead of 10AD and an additional 3AD Beam, precise with a 15" range
Or
Bimiaca (Drahk war Bolter Array Varient)
Same base stats, but replaced weapons for:
Quad Bolter array Front 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 4AD
Quad Bolter array Port 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 6AD
Quad Bolter array Starboard 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 6AD
Quad Bolter array Aft 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 4AD
Or maybe:
Bimioki (ISA Era refit)
Same base stats, but replaced weapons for:
Graviton Pulsar Front 12" AP 5AD
Quad Particle array Front 8" Twin Linked 5AD
Graviton Pulsar Port 12" AP 6AD
Quad Particle array Port 8" Twin Linked 6AD
Graviton Pulsar Starboard 12" AP 6AD
Quad Particle array Starboard 8" Twin Linked 6AD
Graviton Pulsar Aft 12" AP 5AD
Quad Particle array Aft 8" Twin Linked 4AD
Or my current favourite
Abbai Quad Particle Array Targeting
The Abbai's Quad Particle arrays are considered the ultimate deterrent, close range and with a tremendous fire rate the systems are as advanced as Particle arrays can be, and some say the abbai have hit the limit of what the technology can do, however recent developments in targeting by the abbai have made the weapons much more versatile and a larger threat than ever.
Abbai ships using Quad particle arrays may choose 3 fire modes when declaring targets, when using these they may not split fire unless other wise stated.
Wide spread, This Fire mode allows the arrays to split fire as normal, and uses the weapon as printed.
Focus Fire, this fire mode reduces range to 4" but gains the AP trait in addition to the Twin-linked
High velocity pulse, Range is increased to 16" but loses half its attack dice.
Some bits to think about prehaps?
I worry that all the varients are turning into up-leveled bolter arrays of the same ship, lets take a look
Before the Juyaca, the abbai ships were a deterant, with massed close range fire power and precise beams to weaken the would be attacker at range.
currently the bimith needs the support of milani and lakaras to provide the long range fire power and since they bring their own quad arrays why take the bimith?
The easy answer is to give the Bimith a combat laser, but that means the ship is the same as every other abbai ship only a different size.
Next to create a raid level bolter varient, that is identicle to the existing varient but loses firepower for range, not a bad choice as a varient.
Another method is to create a IA/brakiri weapon varient, which is more tempting.
or change the quad arrays with a abbai global rule
So I propose:
Bimiari (Drahk war Combat Laser Varient)
Same as 2ed, but 4AD quad front and rear instead of 10AD and an additional 3AD Beam, precise with a 15" range
Or
Bimiaca (Drahk war Bolter Array Varient)
Same base stats, but replaced weapons for:
Quad Bolter array Front 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 4AD
Quad Bolter array Port 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 6AD
Quad Bolter array Starboard 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 6AD
Quad Bolter array Aft 12" Double damage, Twin Linked 4AD
Or maybe:
Bimioki (ISA Era refit)
Same base stats, but replaced weapons for:
Graviton Pulsar Front 12" AP 5AD
Quad Particle array Front 8" Twin Linked 5AD
Graviton Pulsar Port 12" AP 6AD
Quad Particle array Port 8" Twin Linked 6AD
Graviton Pulsar Starboard 12" AP 6AD
Quad Particle array Starboard 8" Twin Linked 6AD
Graviton Pulsar Aft 12" AP 5AD
Quad Particle array Aft 8" Twin Linked 4AD
Or my current favourite
Abbai Quad Particle Array Targeting
The Abbai's Quad Particle arrays are considered the ultimate deterrent, close range and with a tremendous fire rate the systems are as advanced as Particle arrays can be, and some say the abbai have hit the limit of what the technology can do, however recent developments in targeting by the abbai have made the weapons much more versatile and a larger threat than ever.
Abbai ships using Quad particle arrays may choose 3 fire modes when declaring targets, when using these they may not split fire unless other wise stated.
Wide spread, This Fire mode allows the arrays to split fire as normal, and uses the weapon as printed.
Focus Fire, this fire mode reduces range to 4" but gains the AP trait in addition to the Twin-linked
High velocity pulse, Range is increased to 16" but loses half its attack dice.
Some bits to think about prehaps?
We tried some similar ideas to the Quad Array thoughts you had, but slightly less. We thought about just using the Long Range Targeting refit off the tables, can fire at 50% more range for half the dice round up +1. Hadn't looked at the focused thing.
As to why we were looking at the Bimith going up a slot in Hiffano's Drahk War was because he had the Milani go up and become the Miliae(?) which nicely covered the Raid beam/puncher/specialist mine slot.
We went with the weapons we did in part to due to the proposed opponent. These ships are being build to threated ships with a GEG of 2 or 3, so damage has to have either a high expected damage/crew per weapon line, or a high incidence of crits. The shifter was seen as the only good way to defend against beams/front arc dependent ships, without inventing a new system. Especially given the Abbai don't seem to gain any advantages in the Juyaca from IA involvement, so we thought we'd avoid some of those ideas for Drahk war hulls.
All that said, I agree that the current Bimith is very limited. The old one had problems getting the best out of it, but was at quick enough and maneuverable enough to expect to be shooting by the third turn. Lumbering just hamstrings it too much, most fleets can simply avoid it's 'death halo'. Not that I think it ever killed anything on its own...single damage stacks of dice just don't tend to pull it off, espcially interceptable ones. Now that interceptors are virtually universal...no idea why anyone would be afraid of this ship.
Ripple
As to why we were looking at the Bimith going up a slot in Hiffano's Drahk War was because he had the Milani go up and become the Miliae(?) which nicely covered the Raid beam/puncher/specialist mine slot.
We went with the weapons we did in part to due to the proposed opponent. These ships are being build to threated ships with a GEG of 2 or 3, so damage has to have either a high expected damage/crew per weapon line, or a high incidence of crits. The shifter was seen as the only good way to defend against beams/front arc dependent ships, without inventing a new system. Especially given the Abbai don't seem to gain any advantages in the Juyaca from IA involvement, so we thought we'd avoid some of those ideas for Drahk war hulls.
All that said, I agree that the current Bimith is very limited. The old one had problems getting the best out of it, but was at quick enough and maneuverable enough to expect to be shooting by the third turn. Lumbering just hamstrings it too much, most fleets can simply avoid it's 'death halo'. Not that I think it ever killed anything on its own...single damage stacks of dice just don't tend to pull it off, espcially interceptable ones. Now that interceptors are virtually universal...no idea why anyone would be afraid of this ship.
Ripple
glad to see some people thinking of more Abbai love, heck i don't even own Abbai but I felt with all the love the brakiri got the abbai needed some, even if it was only as a fan created product. I did worry about making all abbai the same, I like the use of the gravitic shifters on one of the Bimith designs, showed more sharing with the Brakiri, and would be good to flig raiders away.
