Intelligent weapon, now I'm lost?

[WoodsWalker]

I have to run to work but my off the cuff ruling would be.

No Gun Combat? Minus 3 right off the bat. The positive mods for the fancy gun would need to first overcome that -3 before actually helping.

It's kind of like a scope on a real world gun. It doesn't help you HIT the target it helps you SEE that target. Also if the weapon isn't available for whatever reason the player would be really stuck. I find -3 is a huge negative in Traveller.

 

[alex_greene]

Any scope or sight can eliminate that -3 penalty. Any klutz can hit a target if there's a red laser dot painted on it.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Any scope or sight can eliminate that -3 penalty. Any klutz can hit a target if there's a red laser dot painted on it.

Without proper stance and breathing the gun can move as the trigger is pulled and result in a poor shot.

 

[CosmicGamer]

If you look further down on p92 under the "Effect" for Intellect it gives an example of a robot using medic skill at one skill level under the level of expert program. So clearly the line "A character using an expert system" also refers to robots. If that sentence applies to robots (& AI's) then the immediately following sentence applies just as much.

If you think there is a problem with the rules, how do you play it in your games?

I don't know how your book or pdf is organized. I know there were different printings and pdf releases. Mine has the different types of software clearly separated. Each one even has a different background shading.

So for me, Intellect and Expert are covered separately as they are two different types of software.

Expert talks about how the software applies to characters and describes the Intelligence and Education-based check limit but says nothing about robots.

Intellect talks about how the software applies to a robot and says nothing about the Intelligence and Education-based check limit.

I just don't see an issue with the rules other than them not working the way some people would like them to. In this case, perhaps wanting software to enhance dex and str based skill checks for characters. As with any part of the rules, of you don't agree with them, that doesn't mean they are broke. Just change things to work with your preferred way of playing.

 

[alex_greene]

Any scope or sight can eliminate that -3 penalty. Any klutz can hit a target if there's a red laser dot painted on it.

Without proper stance and breathing the gun can move as the trigger is pulled and result in a poor shot.

Yes, because they are still going to be klutzes and hold their guns sideways because they think it makes them look cool.

It's not just the player characters who are going to be holding these death sticks, you know, and they're not all going to be Chow Yun Fat on steroids.

 

[mr31337]

If you think there is a problem with the rules, how do you play it in your games?

The rules from Book 9 that cover skill packages, command algorithms & personality programs perfectly suit our requirements. So we're all happy campers! :mrgreen:

It did crop up though, when we discussed it, that putting a personality program on a sidearm is a rather cruel thing to do to an AI. Food for thought.

 

[nats]

I couldnt understand the rules regarding intelligent weapons at all, they actually throw up more questions than they answer.

And trying to actually get a working weapon with a computer etc into the size of a weapon is impossible - I actually changed the rules a little bit to make them capable of producing a sensible intelligent weapon.

But lets face it, its just never going to work practically - a weapon that can shoot itself and make decisions for itself is just a stupid idea and why would you need a weapon to do anything other than shoot and be stable. The only thing you could need some 'intelligence' for is for securing the weapon against misuse like Judge Dredds and agruably that wouldnt need intelligence just some basic computer programming. Once you start getting into anti hacking and all that it all starts getting a bit daft.

So my advice is just add a 'secure' weapon option that will only allow use by the authorised user and remove the whole intelligent weapon rule from the game and you will not miss it at all.

 

[alex_greene]

Technology Marches On: Guns powered by Linux:- Here come the dangerous tools of the future

Technology small enough to fit onto a weapon, with the power of a smartphone, and the functionality of a modern digital camera in capturing accurate target data to enable even a duffer to shoot with precision.

Bullseyes at a range of one kilometre.

I'd say that this is just what you were looking for.

 

[DickTurpin]

The Tracking Point gun is great for extreme range, single shot events like hunting or sniping; it is most certainly NOT suitable as a close range combat weapon. The system takes into account gun angle, air pressure, planetary rotation, wind speed and direction, etc. to compute adjustments to the aim point. All these things can be accounted for by a trained and experienced sniper, the gun just makes the results available to those who want to spend a bunch of money instead of spending a bunch of time at target practice.

It’s unsuitability as a combat weapon comes from the way the gun ensures an accurate shot by a novice; it does not fire when the trigger is pulled. Once the user identifies the target and pulls the trigger, the gun sits there waiting until it is pointed at the correct spot before it fires. No player in his right mind wants his character to use a gun that might take several combat rounds to fire after the trigger is pulled.

 

[mr31337]

No player in his right mind wants his character to use a gun that might take several combat rounds to fire after the trigger is pulled.

It sounds like a hilarious gag to pull on your players if you're an evil GM like me. :twisted:

 

[fthlagen]

Old post but sitting near the top so I'll throw my experience in here.

I keep guns to a minimum in the campaign. They're fine in the wilderness when there might be animals around and they're of course mandatory during civil strife and so forth, but as a general rule, citizens don't go about their days packing heat and the players should be put at ease by that. When the customs officials board your ship and one of them has a pistol, that should be a big deal. A platoon of soldiers fanning out across the street should mean there's a war on, not that you're being arrested.

A player who finds himself in a situation where carrying a gun is obvious but didn't take it because you implied it was safe can justifiably criticise your refereeing. We instinctively know if a situation is safe or not and it should be a deliberate decision to defy common sense that trips up a player, not ignorance.

If every NPC resolves arguments by pulling out a weapon, then your players should worry that you're shoring up some insecurity by trying to win at role-playing.

Likewise, if your players resort to threats with weapons every time they need to achieve something then, unless they're deliberately choosing to be anarchists, you're probably doing something wrong. You need to make it possible for them to achieve progress in other ways.

All that said, so I read in the news tonight that a person in the USA shot another person in the cinema because he wouldn't stop texting when asked.

 

[Condottiere]

In the future, guns will probable lock on and tell you when the barrel is pointing directly at the target, if not have a guided bullet. They certainly have one system right now that's good for five hundred metres.

 

[CosmicGamer]

In the future, guns will probable lock on and tell you when the barrel is pointing directly at the target, if not have a guided bullet. They certainly have one system right now that's good for five hundred metres.

As I am aware of it, the smart gun needs to be set up somewhere stable and utilizes the wind, humidity, atmospheric density, and so on of it's location. Certainly useful for a long range sniper in hiding or a defensive position if the enemy needs to cover open ground. I can see it as being of little use in some situations. Very long distance shots can increase the bullets travel time so that a less than perfect solution is available for a target that can move. In movie terms, the target bends down to tie their shoe just as the trigger is pulled. As with most things, defenses will also evolve. Perhaps armies deploying "thumpers" or "boomers" which shake buildings or the ground decreasing the ability to obtain an accurate lock.

I think the smart bullet may be less defensible. EM fields? Spray a gumming or blinding mist in front of moving troops? The smart bullet has it's obvious limitations such as a single bullet costing more than several clips of regular ammo and increased size reduces magazine capacity. there is also a higher rate of failure because of all the moving parts and complexity. Unless it has maneuvering thrusters, it's ability to correct it's course would be limited to manipulating flight surfaces and as DickTurpin indicated, flight duration would relate to accuracy.

 

[mr31337]

In the future, guns will probable lock on and tell you when the barrel is pointing directly at the target, if not have a guided bullet. They certainly have one system right now that's good for five hundred metres.

Can you provide further details or a link to "They" please?

 

[Condottiere]

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/bullseye-from-1000-yards-shooting-the-17000-linux-powered-rifle/

 

[Solomani666]

.

That is what the skill packages are for on page 38.

You can also have another player teach him Gun Combat 0.

Also, having one character that sucks in gun combat can lead to some interesting and hilarious roleplay!


.

 

[alex_greene]

Also, having one character that sucks in gun combat can lead to some interesting and hilarious roleplay!

Especially when all the others are gun-heavy and the situation calls for Persuade or Science or Recon or some non-combat skill.

 

[Meanderer]

One of the most successful sci-fi characters I played was an absent minded nerd with amazing technical skills and, well, a somewhat less imposing physique than Howard Walowitz.

He did design an amazing tricked out laser rifle capable of autofiring, with a cooling system to keep it from overheating, and an exta-large power supply to keep it going. It was everything he needed.

Oh, he didn't use it. He gave it to a combat goon who quickly realized that this nerd guy came in handy maintaining this capable but subtly tempermental laser slaughter-machine.

You really didn't want to mess with the nerd after that. Really.

But as for a personal defense weapon, a pistol with some sensors and a small computer would still have to maintain the basic weight of a pistol or it would become too cumbersome to use. I guess you could have a laser pistol with a backpack mounted power pack and robot brain to run an expert system, but if it is part of the gun it can't be expected to be that expert. But the small version can be concealed and carried like a regular pistol (which may be what the character wants).

So, some basic sensors and a gyroscope that can cause the gun to twist or fight twitching by the user might be worth a bonus of +2 on aimed shots, but loses the bonus on snapshots (as you try to quickly move the gun to bring it to bear the gun tries to resist your motion to stabilize it on target - but it has to figure out what your target is. Make that a -2 for trying a snapshot into a crowd (the gun thinks you are trying to shoot someone else).

May lose the bonus in some situations (extreme magnetic fields, thick smoke).

it's like outsourcing your thinking to your smartphone. It may do a great spellcheck and autocorrect but think of all the words it autocorrects wrong? Characters with skill would ditch a gun like this as it is too finicky and they have less trouble hitting things they are carefully aiming at and are more concerned with things like snapshots during intense firefights. But the character with no skill could use this to hold back and find targets he can aim at carefully for the bonus.

And if he tries to fire it in that crowd, that's when things get interesting for the gamemaster.