Supplement Four
Mongoose
Of the versions of D&D I've played in my life, I've spent the most time with AD&D. But, that was a long, long time ago. I spent my D&D gaming days almost as much with AD&D 2E. And, the only other D&D game I've played is 3.0/3.5. This last edition I've been learning over the last couple of years through the Conan RPG. D&D, no matter what version, always takes a long time to master, with all the books and if/thens and hidden pros/cons. When I say "master", I mean being able to play the game RAW without looking at the rule book often.
I'm finally starting to get to that point with my campaign, and I've got to say, of the three versions of D&D I've played, 3.5 has become my favorite. Both the other versions will always hold a place in my heart, but I do now think that 3.5 is the best version of the game I've played.
I've got one, big sticking point with 3.0/3.5, though. It's not something that I can't change as a DM, though. It's a playstyle thing.
That sticking point is this: 3.0/3.5 encourages players to roll dice to solve in-game problems rather than using their noodles and gray matter.
For example, let's say that a player has his character examine the quality of swords in a merchant's stall. Back in the old days of AD&D and 2E, the player would ask questions, and the DM would answer. Many times, this would errupt into a roleplaying situation, the DM playing the merchant.
Player says, "What does the sword look like?" And, as DM, I'd reply, "You see nicks in the edge. The blade is dry and badly needs oil. And, there's some rust near the handle and guard. Out of the corner of your eye, you see the merchant staring at you, smiling. He walks over. "Master," he says, "that weapon has been used to kill many foes. It is a soldier's weapon. Very serviceable. High quality. And, it seems to fit your hand perfectly! Shall we say...70 silver Farthings?"
Now, the player is into it. He replies, in character, "Nay! I can obtain a new sword, hot from the forge, for 70 Farthings. Look at the rust! Look at the nicks! Look--the handle needs to be re-wrapped! I'll give you 25 Farthings."
"TWENTY-Five Farthings!" The GM explodes, in character. "Will you take the food from the mouths of my children? That weapon is worth 50 Farthings if it is worth one, but I'll take a loss on it at 45 Farthings because you blessed me today by entering my humble shop."
See how the older rules promoted roleplaying? It's natural to get to this place using the AD&D 2E rules. But, with 3.0/3.5, it's a different story. Instead of roleplaying, rolling dice is encouraged. Instead of the player originally asking questions about the sword, back and forth, with the GM, the question is likely to be, "I want to roll an Appraise check. What's my DC?" And, once you give him the DC, he wants to know what his check told him.
I see this in a lot of aspects of the 3.5 game. The infamous example of finding traps has been brought up before. Old school players ask questions about where they suspect a trap to be. The DM answers those questions, usually telling the player what his character knows through his touch, feel, sight, hearing, and smell. The 3.5 player will roll on his Find Traps. Yeah, I know the AD&D has a Find Traps throw, too, but other character types don't. What you usually get, in an old school game, is a player pouring water from his waterskin to see if the water pools on the ground or slips between stones, indicating a possible trap. The old school player might use the end of his sword or a polearm to poke around. The 3.0/3.5 player just wants to roll some dice, find out the answer, and move on.
Even the combat example in the 3.0/3.5 PHB speaks of just rolling dice instead of relying on player questions and DM description.
Once I realized that a big, enjoyable part of the game was being neutered by the style of the game, I endeavored to change that in my game. Still, though, I find my players defaulting to "What my roll?" instead of asking what their character can see/hear/smell.
I think it's a game design issue. It's the way 3.0/3.5 was written. The 3.0/3.5 rules focus the game on a game board--a grid. Miniatures are encouraged for combat (where as, in AD&D 2E, no map and DM description was the focus).
And, sometimes, I find that I've drawn the game back to the old style of doing things only to irritate a player who has spent precious skill points on a skill but was denied the benefit he would get because a roll wasn't made.
For example, let's say a player has put a lot of his character's skill points into maxing out his Bluff skill, but half the time, the player never rolls that skill because he's roleplaying his character with the DM--and the quality of the roleplay determines the success of the Bluff.
I was running a AD&D 2E game one time when the players saw (random encounter) a pack of six gnolls on horseback coming down the trail towards them. I described the snarling, nasty beasts to the players as wearing armor and carrying polearms--and looking real mean.
I had six players at the time. Five of them moved off the trail to let the gnolls pass, but one of the players wouldn't have it. He stayed his horse, looked the leader gnoll in the eye, and did not budge.
I had the gnolls slowly ride by. There was tension at the game table. The players, especially the one that refused to move, were ready for a fight. They were banking on one. The four players that moved tried to avoid a fight, but they thought that the one player who stayed in the middle of the road would screw their efforts.
As the lead gnoll rode by the single player character, I had him stare at the PC and emit a deep growl. The player said, "I stare right back at him. I can't let him see that I'm afraid."
Then, I had the gnoll leader tip his head and lower his ears in respect. I figured that the gnolls were a warrior breed who respected other warriors. He'd piss on the other four, if he could, but this one stood up to the entire gnoll party. They rode on, and the players all let out a collective sigh of relief!
See, to me, moments like that is what D&D is all about. That happened years ago, and I still remember it. The player, of course, loved that night's session because of that single minute or so of game time. It was awesome. Not planned. Strictly impromptu. A D&D moment.
I don't see the 3.0/3.5 game encouraging moments like that in the game. I see the player wanting to roll his Bluff skill, and then the DM rolling the gnoll's Sense Motive.
It's not the same. The game doesn't "play" as well like that. Plus, if you play 3.0/3.5 the way I describe above, the player who did max out Bluff may feel like those skill points were wasted and better used on a skill that gets more dice rolling opportunities.
I really think this is a design flaw in the 3.0/3.5 game.
But, don't get me wrong. I do think that there is a place for rolling dice in the situations I've described above. It depends on the moment. It depends on the drama. A good DM, I believe, should shepherd his game in and out of dice rolling and roleplaying situations. Sometimes you just want to quickly see what rumors a character picked up using his Gather Information skill after a few days in town. And, sometimes, the DM wants to place the player at the entrance to the bar, describe the patrons and what the character sees, then play out the moments to see what will come.
It's just that the 3.0/3.5 rules don't encorage the latter.
I read once--I wish I could remember where--a very good piece of GMing advice: Never roll a die when roleplaying a situation would be more interesting--the only time you want to roll is when roleplaying won't work (like determining is a lock is picked) or when roleplaying would bog down the momentum of the game.
I think those are golden words for a DM.
I'm finally starting to get to that point with my campaign, and I've got to say, of the three versions of D&D I've played, 3.5 has become my favorite. Both the other versions will always hold a place in my heart, but I do now think that 3.5 is the best version of the game I've played.
I've got one, big sticking point with 3.0/3.5, though. It's not something that I can't change as a DM, though. It's a playstyle thing.
That sticking point is this: 3.0/3.5 encourages players to roll dice to solve in-game problems rather than using their noodles and gray matter.
For example, let's say that a player has his character examine the quality of swords in a merchant's stall. Back in the old days of AD&D and 2E, the player would ask questions, and the DM would answer. Many times, this would errupt into a roleplaying situation, the DM playing the merchant.
Player says, "What does the sword look like?" And, as DM, I'd reply, "You see nicks in the edge. The blade is dry and badly needs oil. And, there's some rust near the handle and guard. Out of the corner of your eye, you see the merchant staring at you, smiling. He walks over. "Master," he says, "that weapon has been used to kill many foes. It is a soldier's weapon. Very serviceable. High quality. And, it seems to fit your hand perfectly! Shall we say...70 silver Farthings?"
Now, the player is into it. He replies, in character, "Nay! I can obtain a new sword, hot from the forge, for 70 Farthings. Look at the rust! Look at the nicks! Look--the handle needs to be re-wrapped! I'll give you 25 Farthings."
"TWENTY-Five Farthings!" The GM explodes, in character. "Will you take the food from the mouths of my children? That weapon is worth 50 Farthings if it is worth one, but I'll take a loss on it at 45 Farthings because you blessed me today by entering my humble shop."
See how the older rules promoted roleplaying? It's natural to get to this place using the AD&D 2E rules. But, with 3.0/3.5, it's a different story. Instead of roleplaying, rolling dice is encouraged. Instead of the player originally asking questions about the sword, back and forth, with the GM, the question is likely to be, "I want to roll an Appraise check. What's my DC?" And, once you give him the DC, he wants to know what his check told him.
I see this in a lot of aspects of the 3.5 game. The infamous example of finding traps has been brought up before. Old school players ask questions about where they suspect a trap to be. The DM answers those questions, usually telling the player what his character knows through his touch, feel, sight, hearing, and smell. The 3.5 player will roll on his Find Traps. Yeah, I know the AD&D has a Find Traps throw, too, but other character types don't. What you usually get, in an old school game, is a player pouring water from his waterskin to see if the water pools on the ground or slips between stones, indicating a possible trap. The old school player might use the end of his sword or a polearm to poke around. The 3.0/3.5 player just wants to roll some dice, find out the answer, and move on.
Even the combat example in the 3.0/3.5 PHB speaks of just rolling dice instead of relying on player questions and DM description.
Once I realized that a big, enjoyable part of the game was being neutered by the style of the game, I endeavored to change that in my game. Still, though, I find my players defaulting to "What my roll?" instead of asking what their character can see/hear/smell.
I think it's a game design issue. It's the way 3.0/3.5 was written. The 3.0/3.5 rules focus the game on a game board--a grid. Miniatures are encouraged for combat (where as, in AD&D 2E, no map and DM description was the focus).
And, sometimes, I find that I've drawn the game back to the old style of doing things only to irritate a player who has spent precious skill points on a skill but was denied the benefit he would get because a roll wasn't made.
For example, let's say a player has put a lot of his character's skill points into maxing out his Bluff skill, but half the time, the player never rolls that skill because he's roleplaying his character with the DM--and the quality of the roleplay determines the success of the Bluff.
I was running a AD&D 2E game one time when the players saw (random encounter) a pack of six gnolls on horseback coming down the trail towards them. I described the snarling, nasty beasts to the players as wearing armor and carrying polearms--and looking real mean.
I had six players at the time. Five of them moved off the trail to let the gnolls pass, but one of the players wouldn't have it. He stayed his horse, looked the leader gnoll in the eye, and did not budge.
I had the gnolls slowly ride by. There was tension at the game table. The players, especially the one that refused to move, were ready for a fight. They were banking on one. The four players that moved tried to avoid a fight, but they thought that the one player who stayed in the middle of the road would screw their efforts.
As the lead gnoll rode by the single player character, I had him stare at the PC and emit a deep growl. The player said, "I stare right back at him. I can't let him see that I'm afraid."
Then, I had the gnoll leader tip his head and lower his ears in respect. I figured that the gnolls were a warrior breed who respected other warriors. He'd piss on the other four, if he could, but this one stood up to the entire gnoll party. They rode on, and the players all let out a collective sigh of relief!
See, to me, moments like that is what D&D is all about. That happened years ago, and I still remember it. The player, of course, loved that night's session because of that single minute or so of game time. It was awesome. Not planned. Strictly impromptu. A D&D moment.
I don't see the 3.0/3.5 game encouraging moments like that in the game. I see the player wanting to roll his Bluff skill, and then the DM rolling the gnoll's Sense Motive.
It's not the same. The game doesn't "play" as well like that. Plus, if you play 3.0/3.5 the way I describe above, the player who did max out Bluff may feel like those skill points were wasted and better used on a skill that gets more dice rolling opportunities.
I really think this is a design flaw in the 3.0/3.5 game.
But, don't get me wrong. I do think that there is a place for rolling dice in the situations I've described above. It depends on the moment. It depends on the drama. A good DM, I believe, should shepherd his game in and out of dice rolling and roleplaying situations. Sometimes you just want to quickly see what rumors a character picked up using his Gather Information skill after a few days in town. And, sometimes, the DM wants to place the player at the entrance to the bar, describe the patrons and what the character sees, then play out the moments to see what will come.
It's just that the 3.0/3.5 rules don't encorage the latter.
I read once--I wish I could remember where--a very good piece of GMing advice: Never roll a die when roleplaying a situation would be more interesting--the only time you want to roll is when roleplaying won't work (like determining is a lock is picked) or when roleplaying would bog down the momentum of the game.
I think those are golden words for a DM.