MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Here is a little chart I made comparing Trav Jn to TNG Warp & TOS warp speeds. So Jump 1 is about Warp 4.7 ST:TNG
IMTU 20 dTon J1 corpsicle hauler
- Thread starter MarcusIII
- Start date
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
What rues IMTU indicate I should have jump capable fighters? Please cite those unknown rules to me.
It's not just Star Wars. The smaller Elite, Star Citizen and Starfield ships are very much smaller than d100 tons.
Star Trek shuttles are also warp capable small craft.
Hey, Jump torpedoes were mentioned in the CT 1977 black books (NOT just Leviathan as some people may think). So if you want to have them, have them. Since they are likely limited in number and magnitude of jumps, they really don't affect the overall Traveller assumptions any more than a fleet of scouts do. Just a bit more convenient at times.
(Here's the mention, under Expendables, Book 2 p18):
"Missiles: Missiles for missile launch racks are expended when they are fired;
replacements must be obtained for reloading purposes when the situation warrants.
Basically, a missile is of the homing type, costing about CR 5000 each. Such missiles
are committed to a specific target when fired, and after launch, home towards that
target until either the missile or the target is destroyed. Other types of missiles are
possible (for example, jump capable message torpedoes, or bombs for attacks
against planetary surfaces), but such require either specific alterations to ordinary
torpedoes, or location of an arms supplier who deals in such items. Specific
attributes of such non-standard missiles are the realm of the referee."
Mind you, Book 2 forgot to say how many G's a standard missile has. You had to have Mayday to know that.
Fighters that have to carry their own jump fuel might be at a disadvantage. They'll also be pricey, unless you change that too.
Star Trek shuttles are also warp capable small craft.
Hey, Jump torpedoes were mentioned in the CT 1977 black books (NOT just Leviathan as some people may think). So if you want to have them, have them. Since they are likely limited in number and magnitude of jumps, they really don't affect the overall Traveller assumptions any more than a fleet of scouts do. Just a bit more convenient at times.
(Here's the mention, under Expendables, Book 2 p18):
"Missiles: Missiles for missile launch racks are expended when they are fired;
replacements must be obtained for reloading purposes when the situation warrants.
Basically, a missile is of the homing type, costing about CR 5000 each. Such missiles
are committed to a specific target when fired, and after launch, home towards that
target until either the missile or the target is destroyed. Other types of missiles are
possible (for example, jump capable message torpedoes, or bombs for attacks
against planetary surfaces), but such require either specific alterations to ordinary
torpedoes, or location of an arms supplier who deals in such items. Specific
attributes of such non-standard missiles are the realm of the referee."
Mind you, Book 2 forgot to say how many G's a standard missile has. You had to have Mayday to know that.
Fighters that have to carry their own jump fuel might be at a disadvantage. They'll also be pricey, unless you change that too.
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Also... strictly speaking Book 2 1977 doesn't specify a minimum starship hull size. But you have to use standard Letter Value drives, and round up to the next size hull for performance.
Since that means a minimum 15 tons for A drives (giving rating 2 performance), a 20 ton bridge, 1 ton for a 1 bis computer, 4 tons for a stateroom - total 40 tons without fuel - but in 1977 you'd need 20 tons of fuel to power the Type A plant. So you're up to 60 tons already without jump fuel. A 75 ton ship can exist without rounding. 0.1MJn for a J-2 75 ton ship is 15 tons, so that matches. (No jump limiter under these rules either, so that Type A drive is always using 20% of the hull volume in fuel).
At which point you really may as well use a 100 ton standard hull anyway and save MCr18.
Curiosities of the ancient times.
(Also, the larger your ship, the cheaper it is to run the exact same powerplant. And it's very clear from the wording that M-Drives use reaction mass).
Since that means a minimum 15 tons for A drives (giving rating 2 performance), a 20 ton bridge, 1 ton for a 1 bis computer, 4 tons for a stateroom - total 40 tons without fuel - but in 1977 you'd need 20 tons of fuel to power the Type A plant. So you're up to 60 tons already without jump fuel. A 75 ton ship can exist without rounding. 0.1MJn for a J-2 75 ton ship is 15 tons, so that matches. (No jump limiter under these rules either, so that Type A drive is always using 20% of the hull volume in fuel).
At which point you really may as well use a 100 ton standard hull anyway and save MCr18.
Curiosities of the ancient times.
(Also, the larger your ship, the cheaper it is to run the exact same powerplant. And it's very clear from the wording that M-Drives use reaction mass).
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Time Drive, Hyperspace, Warp Drive, Space Warping Drive none of these are Third Imperium yet all of them are in HG. You chose one example that is specifically designed for another setting to base you argument on this is very Disingenuous.
You have no minimum on the Size of Jump Drives why no Jump Fighters? A medium fighter is 35dt a light is around 10dt how could you not have jump fighters. Not much difference from your corpse bus.
Jump missiles 5dt stealth jump 4, low emission Maneuver 6, Basic Robot Brain, stealth hull. Send a million at a system jump on the outside edge even if only 20% make the jump they will be near light speed when they hit the population center. No way to know who sent them.
Without the minimum size for jump drive there are major changes you need to consider. Just pointing out
Under standard rules you could have 100 ton starships that are optimised for dogfighting. Most likely they would be fighter delivery ships, designed to get to the objective and deploy their squadron, although 100 ton ships do have a dogfighting advantage over larger starships. A 100 ton attack starship has a -1 dogfighting modifier... but a 400 ton ship it engages has a -4. In most cases the 100 ton ship will get the +2 bonus while the bigger ship will suffer a -2.
A big consideration are accomodations. Fighters bring to mind cockpits for short period use, not the week long of standard jump. If you retain "one week in jump" unmodified, a jump fighter pilot is going to need walk around and have sleeping space of some kind. In Star Wars, Luke seems to manage in his X-Wing, but it's really unclear how long he was in hyperspace between Hoth to Dagobah. A few hours wouldn't be a stretch, but a week seems unlikely. Maybe a day or two at most with his flight suit handling waste and some kind of food and water supply. (There's probably some canon answer, but that doesn't matter. It's just something to take into account when deciding on changing the ground rules here.)
A big consideration are accomodations. Fighters bring to mind cockpits for short period use, not the week long of standard jump. If you retain "one week in jump" unmodified, a jump fighter pilot is going to need walk around and have sleeping space of some kind. In Star Wars, Luke seems to manage in his X-Wing, but it's really unclear how long he was in hyperspace between Hoth to Dagobah. A few hours wouldn't be a stretch, but a week seems unlikely. Maybe a day or two at most with his flight suit handling waste and some kind of food and water supply. (There's probably some canon answer, but that doesn't matter. It's just something to take into account when deciding on changing the ground rules here.)
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Why bother wasting credits on the stealth if you're using them that way? By the time they're detectable at all (days after they arrive) they'll be uninterceptable. "Near light speed" is overkill, too. All they need to be is fast enough to travel from outside extreme weapon range to impact in one space combat round. It's not like the planet can dodge.
Even arriving one light hour out gives them a full hour of accelleration before they can be detected, by which time it may already be too late to intercept with the resources to hand.
(This is variant tech speculation already, but "outer solar system" and M-Drives don't work well under baseline. You'd probably want to jump in a bit closer, unless you use reaction drives... but then you run into fuel limits.)
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
No, there are minimum size for JD as the ship can be no smaller than 10 dTons. Where did you read in myrules that there wasn't a minimum? Do you have a copy of my rules?
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
And you fail to answer why every example ship is Third Imperium, disingeuous indeed.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
You could do the same tactic with a 100t ship...
for some reason it is not done.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Dogfighting as presented in MgT is preposterous.
He travels at the speed of plot, no need to worry about such things as journey time, it likely only takes a fraction of a parsec...
I said jump drives not jump ships? You already have a jump drive under 10dt in the ship you posted. If your talking the missiles than you make them 10dt with Manuever 9 and lost of armor.
Costs and a 100dt ship is both easier to spot and to hit. There’s your reasons
You post was about the drives now your changing the subject. As for why it’s the most common setting and they are only examples. You want as usual complain and hate everything mongoose does for Traveller than claim the opposite. You’re a major Hypocrite!
The original ship in this thread is a 20dt ship with a 3.5 dt cockpit/bridge so this already sets the precedent yea he has a stateroom but a barrack and possibly 1dt of common area (that’s as much as a Serpent Class Scout courier). Your still running around 15 dt which is still in Small Fighter range.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
No, my post was about the absence of the stutterwarp and the only example ships being Third Imperium - try to tell the truth sometimes
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
You are postulating thousands of jump missiles, so a similar cost of 100t ships
as to detectability if you make the ship a long needle then detecting it will be as difficult as detecting the missile.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Only head on.
Correct. That's why I have a stateroom spec'ed in the <100 dTon jump capable ships. So making such ships into fighters is beyond suicidal.
