Idea in progress : Scout Interceptor/Pirate chaser

[wbnc]

Keep in mind the roles here. Cops would be in launches or cutters. Those are appropriate for police duties. In local space it would probably be more along the lines of a space guard (i.e. Coast Guard) who would be patrolling and such. Then you have para-military, and pure military. A 400 ton ship for cops is a lot. It's even big for a space guard, if you want to compare it to standard coast guard cutter ships in the fleet today. the largest of the cutters are frigate-sized, but they are also deep-ocean ships that get deployed around the world (and they have a military component attached to them as well).

You may want to pick up the MT supplement COACC for some additional source material.

A 400 ton ship is about as big as I would expect from a dedicated system security vessel....along with SDBs..a large system would be able to field a few "heavy cutter" of fast interdiction ships....not many by any stretch of the imagination.

and What does COACC stand for..I don't know a lot of the abbreviations used...the MT era is sort of my personal gaming dark ages when I was out of gaming.

 

[phavoc]

COACC : close orbit and airspace control command. It was a supplement that talked about the work different agencies took on for defending a world at the atmospheric and exo-atmo levels. You can purchase the book separately, or you can get it (along with all the other MT things) from Millers's website on a single DVD. If you want reference materials that DVD's are the most economical way to go - unless you find these dirt cheap somewhere.

 

[Condottiere]

Offshore patrol vessels seem notoriously underpowered in the weapon systems aspect.

Should be enough to scare off most pirates, and fast enough to catch smugglers.

 

[Reynard]

There's the analogy between space and wet naval forces, small craft and cutters patrol the 'coastal' 100D boundaries while larger military vessels keep the 'Imperial' spaceways between worlds safe. These would be the role often falling to SDBs and monitors and sometimes jump capable ships. A small jump ship is a mobile asset filling in security gaps especially in wild or unsettled regions where large ships are too important (and expensive).

 

[wbnc]

There's the analogy between space and wet naval forces, small craft and cutters patrol the 'coastal' 100D boundaries while larger military vessels keep the 'Imperial' spaceways between worlds safe. These would be the role often falling to SDBs and monitors and sometimes jump capable ships. A small jump ship is a mobile asset filling in security gaps especially in wild or unsettled regions where large ships are too important (and expensive).

Back in the mid to late 80s smugglers were using power boats to bring in cocaine that were far faster than the Coast guard cutters. So the Coast guard had a series of "Go fast" boats tat could chase them down. Now they use helicopters to track them and direct surface boats to the high speed boats that get their attention...

the civilian version of the interceptor would be Go Fast with teeth. once I get the stats worked up in final form I'll put them up with the illustration and you can see where some of the style came from by looking at cigarette boats, long, lean, lots of engine at the rear.

part of the Idea of making a jump capable civilian version is that it can follow a ship through jump. there are only so many systems a ship can go to, and if they get there before the ship can refuel they can board it...or ask for assistance from local enforcement. Using the principle of being in "active pursuit" to allow the ship to leave it's official jurisdiction and pursue a fleeing criminal.

 

[Condottiere]

Let's not neglect narco submersibles, and throwing packages overboard.

 

[wbnc]

Let's not neglect narco submersibles, and throwing packages overboard.

True, they are having to use Naval resources to combat submersibles.

And if they throw the packages off. the chopper just follows them to shore detains the passengers while a cutter collects the packages for inspection. chucking large package off during the middle of pursuit is a classic case of sufficient probable cause I imagine if a free trder ejected a cargo module when a System boat pulled along side then took off like a bat out of hell the system boat would go into pursuit as well..

 

[Condottiere]

I'd feed it to the fusion power plant.

 

[AndrewW]

I imagine if a free trder ejected a cargo module when a System boat pulled along side then took off like a bat out of hell the system boat would go into pursuit as well..

Even the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy can get boarded.

 

[wbnc]

I imagine if a free trder ejected a cargo module when a System boat pulled along side then took off like a bat out of hell the system boat would go into pursuit as well..

Even the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy can get boarded.

Yep....an it happens at the worst time possible for the honest businessman innocently transporting what he believes to be a crate of aunt Annies homemade brownies.

 

[wbnc]

I'd feed it to the fusion power plant.

Yeah unfortunately the injectors aren't sized for fifty kilo bales of Aldebaran whiffleblatt.

 

[Anonymous]

If you want to catch smugglers who have fast boats

1) You want maximum possible acceleration OR a smallcraft that has it along with marines. If they can steal a civvie racing yacht that's faster than your cutter, your cutter sucks.

2) If you meet 2 guys "swapping goods" and they scatter, you need a second fast boat to catch them both.

Conclusion: Get max acceleration AND a smallcraft with max acceleration.

Take a look at a Damen Stan cutter for a RL version of this ship. There's a deck plan down the bottom of the wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damen_Stan_4200_patrol_vessel

Essentially this a long range patrol vessel that carries the interceptor. It's not, in itself, the interceptor due to speed limits (wet navy ships aren't spaceships) - If you can get interceptor speed on the main ship in traveller then go for it, but otherwise pack two fast boats.

 

[Reynard]

This is funny. This thread has me imagining massive paranoia by refs and players gutting iconic adventure ships to mount huge power plants and maxed out maneuver drives in a literal race war with every ship zipping around at 9-11gs while somehow also fitting the best weapons and defenses.

"What do you mean there's no room for cargo or fuel?! We have to down size the crew?"

 

[wbnc]

This is funny. This thread has me imagining massive paranoia by refs and players gutting iconic adventure ships to mount huge power plants and maxed out maneuver drives in a literal race war with every ship zipping around at 9-11gs while somehow also fitting the best weapons and defenses.

"What do you mean there's no room for cargo or fuel?! We have to down size the crew?"

well if your carrying say a few displacement tons of illegal goods, using it for gun running or to support other low volume illegal trade...you can get away with a lot less cargo space. all a ship has to do is get out of weapons range, and make it to a safe jump limit....if you are in a free trader with thrust 6 under the hood, and they are anticipating a thrust 1 chase, odds are you might just catch the flat footed. So some agency tired of clever monkeys, in fast boats, finally springs for a fast interceptor to even the odds. At which point any sane smuggling group packs up bags and moves a few systems over.

"Sir, the target is now accelerating at six gees...recalculating time to intercept....( watches as the time to intercept exceeds target time to jump limit)..Sir, target will reach jump limit before we achieve intercept...."

As a reference, During prohibition rum runners would buy overpowered boats race out to supply ships off shore and race back in as fast as possible. The customs and revenue bots were too slow to catch them...until the revenue agents bought thier own fast boats....ironical the same guy was building both sets of boats.and let us not forget that a certain not-so-stock light freighter was built on the same lines...stripped down, fitted with over powered hand built drives. It made a decent reputation for itself by outrunning anything that came after it.

 

[Askold]

At that point, rather than trying to stay in the arms race, most of the smugglers are better off using "normal" ships that don't draw attention and hiding the illegal cargo on the ship. ...Then you just hope that the customs don't find the contraband on your ship.

After all, there isn't much cargo that is so valuable that it is worth designing a special fast-ship just for moving it around so most of the illegal stuff is probably transported among passengers' personal gear or in cargo holds with forged documentary (just like in the real world.)

 

[phavoc]

This is funny. This thread has me imagining massive paranoia by refs and players gutting iconic adventure ships to mount huge power plants and maxed out maneuver drives in a literal race war with every ship zipping around at 9-11gs while somehow also fitting the best weapons and defenses.

"What do you mean there's no room for cargo or fuel?! We have to down size the crew?"

This brings up a very good point. Canonical designs had 1-2G drives. Blockad runners and such were at 4G. 6G is possible, but used to require a hefty investment in PP and M-drives. Which is all ok if what you do IS smuggling. With MGT 1st Edition the fastest ships were the smallest ones. Starships were still limited by 6G's. Then we got afterburners, err, reaction drives, that could be added to give you a short-term speed boost.

Now we have people tossing around 9G (with afterburners), 15 Armor factor designs... and the revised canonical designs don't quite reflect that.

 

[Anonymous]

At that point, rather than trying to stay in the arms race, most of the smugglers are better off using "normal" ships that don't draw attention and hiding the illegal cargo on the ship. ...Then you just hope that the customs don't find the contraband on your ship. After all, there isn't much cargo that is so valuable that it is worth designing a special fast-ship just for moving it around so most of the illegal stuff is probably transported among passengers' personal gear or in cargo holds with forged documentary (just like in the real world.)

Cocaine comes out of Columbia on DIY submarines. They also use fast powerboats near the coast.

A fast smuggling ship doesn't need to be specially designed. Just get the 'sport model' of the regular ship's boat with the maxed out thrusters.

 

[wbnc]

Canon Ships are off the shelf designs meant to be used by almost anyone and built in large numbers. They are also baseline ships. A player takes them and tweaks them to taste, or budget. a high end Free trader with ten or fifteen years of constant alterations, and upgrades will not be anything like a ship you just took off the lot at Vargr Joe's New and Used starships.

A system buying twenty SDBs is likely going to buy them stock, and negotiate a bulk purchase discount. Then upgrade them as they have the time and funds.

same for a commercial shipping firm. They'll upgrade, downgrade,and alter the stock ships as they need to, or as business situations allow them to pay for upgrades.

a ship like the one I am working on is a special purpose, special purchase ship...built to the upper end of the scale for buyers who need that particular type of ship. Military forces tend to be limited in their purchases by political and cost per program rather than a ship by ship basis. If a force needs cruisers they may not be able to afford a ship that is cutting edge/perfectly optimized.....even the Imperium has bean counters, and Bureaucrats/politicians who want to shave money away from one program to spend on their own pet project.

So Canon ships would tend to be the baseline, not the upper, or lower end of he scale....or at least that's my take on it.

 

[Reynard]

And there's the issue again. If ships are being specially built as smugger craft blazing around at top speeds, they're going to be beacons in the dark. Even fast water craft today tend to get noticed and rarely mistaken for a rich man's pleasure toy. Special built smuggling craft, by the nature of an interstellar community, are also saddled with the albatross of a jump drive which tends to blink brightly on reentry to normal space and reduce displacement significantly plus, unlike a nation's coastline, star systems have more limited 'beaching' opportunities. You will be forced to carry only small loads of high value cargo but waving your arms shouting "Over here!" gets it taken. I know this is Traveller and there's a bit of the hack & slash mentality but I don't believe contraband carriers are more willing to regularly have shoot-outs in all but the most desperate encounters. You watch the news today or watch a show like Border Wars and smugglers are more often a cowardly lot who put their hands up when shooting starts, player characters are the exception. As a matter of fact, Border Wars demonstrates smuggling is about being clever and 'how not to be seen'. Mrs. Smegma tries to get her goods through by not standing up. Smugglers use normal vehicles with extraordinary means of concealment within the frame of said vehicle or they plan to get around the carefully conceived surveillance network rather than bull rushing it. It's not always Fast and Furious: the Traveller Movie.

The vast majority of ships in Traveller are relatively economical and that means relatively slow. Any vessel not behaving normally, and ships will be classified for their components, will be very suspect. If a Free Trader moves like a sports coupe, they will be asked to stand down or else. If a ship of unknown configuration appears they will receive the same treatment and be inspected. If a Subsidized Merchant putters all the way to port with a power plant not glowing unusually then the smuggled goods at least reach the port.

On that note, I keep staring at the title of this thread and realize what we may have here. As I've said, we have an expensive and very specialized craft. That often means specialized mission profiles. Rather than a common pirate chaser, your ship is a rare Hunter-Killer. When an organization releases this hound, someone has attracted the wrong attention! This is the legendary somewhat mythical vehicle no one talks about too loudly. It's a bit like sending James Bond out to get you and he never goes after small fish.

 

[phavoc]

A system buying twenty SDBs is likely going to buy them stock, and negotiate a bulk purchase discount. Then upgrade them as they have the time and funds.

same for a commercial shipping firm. They'll upgrade, downgrade,and alter the stock ships as they need to, or as business situations allow them to pay for upgrades.

No, not really. Or at least that doesn't follow current reality. Today you see smaller navies purchasing warships second hand and those ships retain their equipment as much as possible. The exceptions being relatively isolated gear change outs due to age or whatnot. The reason someone buys them that way is because they can't build them on their own (or it's simply cheaper to purchase someone's paid off SDB's, do some minor repairs and put them into mainline service in your secondary or tertiary star-system).

a ship like the one I am working on is a special purpose, special purchase ship...built to the upper end of the scale for buyers who need that particular type of ship. Military forces tend to be limited in their purchases by political and cost per program rather than a ship by ship basis. If a force needs cruisers they may not be able to afford a ship that is cutting edge/perfectly optimized.....even the Imperium has bean counters, and Bureaucrats/politicians who want to shave money away from one program to spend on their own pet project.

So Canon ships would tend to be the baseline, not the upper, or lower end of he scale....or at least that's my take on it.

Yah, I agree your's would be on the upper-end of the scale. To me it's built more along the lines of a warship instead of a civilian ship modified for police duties. Nothing wrong with that, as we saw in Ferguson with the cops deploying armored cars with LMG's on top. Big question comes down to what level of militarization would a planetary police force have in the future. Fortunately it would be all over the board due to the vagaries of planetary governments, so you pretty much have a free hand in designing and deploying whatever you so choose.

To me canonical ships represent average vessels for their type and class - unless they are specifically designed for a purpose. They would be what I judge my ship and any other ship by. That's how I could say "gee, this is a hunk of junk", or "gee, this is a REALLY FAST hunk of junk that can do the kessel run in 12 parsecs" - though for the latter I would put in some reasons WHY speed = distance... unlike certain movie producers... thank goodness for books!

And there's the issue again. If ships are being specially built as smugger craft blazing around at top speeds, they're going to be beacons in the dark. Even fast water craft today tend to get noticed and rarely mistaken for a rich man's pleasure toy. Special built smuggling craft, by the nature of an interstellar community, are also saddled with the albatross of a jump drive which tends to blink brightly on reentry to normal space and reduce displacement significantly plus, unlike a nation's coastline, star systems have more limited 'beaching' opportunities.....

I very much agree with this! Every criminal and smuggler knows they can't fight "the man". No matter how fast your little smuggling ship is, it can't outrun radio's or military attack craft (it may get away a few times, but once it's known and identified, it's lifespan will be remarkably much shorter). Traveller has never really delved terribly deep into the relationship between the cops and the military. Since technically the 100D limit is where the sphere of ownership ends for a planet, the Imperium is responsible for navigation and safety beyond that. With the sheer volume we are talking here I don't see any Imperial ship stopping a planetary patrol craft from chasing someone they believe has broken their law beyond the 100D limit. So long as overall Imperial law was being followed I wouldn't see them blinking an eye, if not trying to help the local authorities.

Seems like an interesting area to see some write-up and such eh? Maybe a few articles in Freelance Traveller? Buehler? Buehler??