How to tempt PF DnD players to MRQ2....

[danskmacabre]

As I've said before I have some players I run Pathfinder for, as I can get PF players fairly easily.
However I WOULD like to run MRQ2 which is my system of choice really (Although PF DOES have it merits).

For the most part the players in my PF campaign have pretty clearly stated they prefer the herioc feel to PF as opposed to the grittiness of MRQ2 (Not all the players are like this one or 2 have expressed interest in MRQ2).

I think once they try it out they'll really like the CMs and the hit locations etc which make combat far more interesting over DnD.

So I'm thinking of a way to AT FIRST kind of give MRQ2 a DnD feel so they don't just go into an adventure and charge in and get chopped up into little pieces and never want to play MRQ2 again.

I've been thinking of various approaches to this:

1: just make monsters weaker, fudge rolls in the players favour
2: Make the starting characters more powerful, give them more starting skill points.
3: Stick in more magic items


Any suggestions on how I can pull this off?

 

[ThatGuy]

I would go with option 2.

If you are feeling really generous, spot them a CHARACTER APPROPRIATE heroic ability.

 

[danskmacabre]

I'm not a big fan of the herioc abilities in MRQ2, but yeah that could make them interested in MRQ2.
Giving them some decent armor to start with will help a lot too.
Like above an beyond what a character could normally start with.

The idea is to introduce them to the way MRQ2 works and the way combat works without actually killing the entire party.
Having say armor providing 4 APs all over is a good way of reducing the risk of getting limbs chooped off etc.

I could be less clever about what CMs mobs use against the party as well.

 

[Dan True]

I had no problems with lethality. I am running my games very d&d-style, since they're in Eberron, and I haven't lost a character yet...

- Dan

 

[danskmacabre]

How many points do you allow your players to start with?
Is there other ways that the char gen in your campaign differs than standard MRQ2?

 

[Dan True]

How many points do ytou allow your players to atart with?
Is there other ways that the char gen in your campaign differs than standard MRQ2?

The only way my char generation differs is that I use Eberron cultures and some new professions. The same number of points, and I believe the cultures and professions are about the same strength as the standard.

My campaign differs in that characters don't have common magic available as standard. Oh yeah, and they have a warforged to tank (even though it is rarely neccesary).

As long as players think about their actions, and don't just run in and get surrounded, characters can still be pretty competent in adventurers. They should use their surroundings to get an edge, use every dirty trick in the book and think before acting. But this have all been said before.
I would introduce them gently - I don't see it as neccesary to give them greater powers, other than perhaps allowing any warrior-type character to start with some armour and weapons (can be hard to afford from starting money). So start them off fighting other humans, lightly armoured and not in too great numbers. Knowing players right, they will quickly get a feeling for their abilities and think about using them differently against stronger opponents.

Also, remember that you're the dm and you should play whatever you feel best with. Of course I'm not saying you should brutally overrule your current players and their wishes, but if you want to start a new MRQ2 campaign, then do so and tell the players "I'm starting an RQ campaign, anyone wanna join and try it?". You can always keep it running beside your PF campaign, or put the other one on a break - so you don't endanger your relationship with any PF-Only player.

 

[Dan True]

On a side note to my "just start the new group"-comment. Your gaming area may of course be different than mine - so it might not be that easy to get players... in that case, you cannot of course decide to run something else, as you all have to get along.
My advice was directed by myself coming from an area with a large surplus of players, and not enough gm's...

- Dan

 

[danskmacabre]

It's kind of an odd area I live in.
Lots of professionals and families live in this area and seeing as RPGs are a kind of niche hobby, the availability of players is pretty thin.

The nearest cities both have RPG clubs which have been around for ages and already have established groups.
I used to go regularly to one of the bi-weekly gaming group meetings ina pub, but they don't like having people running campaigns, only one off scenarios.

Still, I keep putting ads on pen and paper games and other player search sites.

 

[ThatGuy]

OK.

So my heroic (power) character approach is as follows:

Decide on a character CONCEPT. As GM and player, we will make this concept work.

Roll stats. (4d6 dropping the lowest roll- SIZ and INT rolled regularly).

Player can swap any 2 stats. SIZ and INT can only be swapped with each other.

Roll 1d3. Add the points to stats as you please.

GM adds up to 2 points to round out concept.

I then give "Class" bonuses, in addition to cultural and professional. Generally, an extra 70 points streamlined to make the character MORE like what they are. I usually pick 7 skills and make them +10 (sometimes this ends up simply opening an advanced skill for free).

Spend free points as normal.

Then at the end, I grant any heroic abilities (usually in exchange for starting the game with less of "something"- Hero Points, Items, etc), bonus skills (to get a skill set to the "Acolyte" level, etc), whatever.

This method works if you want very streamlined characters- The Noble statesman, The Warrior, The Scout / Ranger, The talented Wizards Apprentice, The Gifted Spirit Walker, etc. If you keep the caps on the number of spells in Grimoires and +30 free point addition, no more than 2 spirits, etc, characters don't get too unbalanced- and they get to play what the character they want to play. Which is always great.

And generally, with MRQ2, they are still not safe- opposed rolls and all. No matter how skilled a single fighter is, 2 or 3 opponents with good dice can usually take him down, if he's no too heavily armored.

And if you don't tell them about the extras before they get them, they generally feel very happy with all of the easter eggs.

 

[danskmacabre]

I quite like some of those guidelines, I'll try it out with some test games with my son and see how it plays out.

Thanks

 

[ThatGuy]

Also, optionally, you can offer one re-roll of a Stat that is rolled at 9 or less.

 

[DamonJynx]

I got my players to roll all stats with 1 extra D6 dropping the lowest. Then it was all as per the Elric/Core Books. Mind you, my players were keen to play something other than D&D so there's a bit of a difference.

The opening encounters I ran fairly straight with just the tiniest bit of fudging. One of the characters, singularly unequipped for spirit combat, did the D&D thing and touched the diamond statue, which - you guessed it, started a spirit combat encounter. Obviously he lost and he was a bit miffed, but he got over it.

I guess, what I'm trying to say is do what feels right to you and for your group. From your previous posts you seem a fairly bright guy with a good understanding of the game. Just go for it.

 

[RosenMcStern]

I would definitely go with the "roll one more dice and drop the lowest" variation in chargen, it does not hurt. I still wonder why Loz dropped it. Too D&Dish?

As for the passage from PF to MRQ2... well, just let them try and they will see. It also depends on the level you start with in Pathfinder. I played PF one year ago, and hanging around with a level 1 party was terribly boring. We could do nothing except getting bashed by foes and rushing to the closest healer. In MRQ2, a starting character is way more powerful than a level 1 PF character.

The key point to make players appreciate the game are IMO:

a) have them create a character with the RAW (maybe the dice trick as and then ask them "So, does a level 1 character in Pathfinder look more heroic to you?".

b) Let them face a gang of nasty humanoid critters with a support magician as their first foes. Limbs should not end up being lopped off by simple sword-wielding goblins, but they will feel like providing a challenge if they have a magician with them. Have the wizard cast multi-target wrack on all characters with a 40% Grimoire skill. Almost no one will get crippled by getting 1d4 damage in a different location every round, but it will scare the hell out of them, forcing one or two of the player characters to rush at the magician and chop it to pieces. Nothing is more rewarding than saying "Phew, we had only a few rounds before being turned to ashes, but we managed to kill the bastard just in time!"

c) After the above scene, ask them "Would level 1 characters have survived such an encounter in Pathfinder?"

d) After all this, end the session and hand them 4 IRs for "defeating the evil shaman". Again, in Pathfinder the characters would NOT have gained enough experience to progress after such an encounter, but in MRQ2 they do. Point out that this is regular, that is characters progress a bit after EVERY adventure, not just when the counter says they level up. If this does not feel heroic enough, they are hopeless.

 

[Deleriad]

The advice here seems spot on. Generally the game is a lot less lethal than it looks and there's no pressing reason to not simply run it as it is in the book. What will keep the characters alive is not an extra point or two on their characteristics, it is the two hero points they start with. It's well worth giving them a handout which includes what you can do with hero points and maybe giving them a bonus after the first session.

I would say there are two things that help when starting out. 1) keep it simple. Maybe start with divine worshipping characters who haven't become initiates yet so the only magic they have is common magic. You will probably find that the players will find the system different enough that they'll spend the first 2-3 sessions just acclimatising. If it goes well they should enjoy that so much that they start wanting to learn how to expand their characters.

2) be careful of the NPCs. Don't run them into things when they don't know how to deal with it. E.g. hitting them with a sorcerer who knows Wrack and Holdfast will just lead to a TPK. Similarly, facing them with spirit combat is pretty much identical to walking up to a player and repeatedly slapping them in the face. Introduce this stuff only when you think the players and the characters have a chance to survive it and flag it first. Of course the players may just rush in foolishly anyway in which case they'll learn a valuable life lesson. Nothing massively unusual in that advice but just realise that RQ is a lot more "swingy" than d20/Pathfinder.

 

[Simulacrum]

All good advice - and I have to say, I don't think RQ delivers lethality in the way often spouted on forums such as RPGnet - what it does do is curb the near invulnerability of high level characters to low level threats, and hands low level characters the chance to defeat high level ones if they are clever, sneaky and/or lucky enough. Both for that reason and those cited above, a beginner RQ character has significantly more options and scope than a level-based equivalent, and your game world can start and remain a mixed economy of low and high-threat adversaries. If you never meet a kobold because your character is well beyond that being a challenge, the setting is diminished.

The simple addition of some armour, as also noted above, can make all the difference, not only to survival but to feeling like a warrior. So don't be too tight to hand some out. An obvious (and realistic) way to do it is to use contacts and allies - have some family, cult or community-owned kit entrusted to an adventurer when he sets out to do something bold.

 

[danskmacabre]

I should have added I'll be using the Elric/MRQ2 rules.
This means no divine worshippers and very limited healing (basically first aid and maybe some potions here and there).

The Elric Rune magic is very limited in healing really.

 

[danskmacabre]

In RPGs in general I run I usualy ignore the starting money rules anyway.
I generally expect a player to kit out their character as appropriate to their profession, class whatever.
For example a fighter type character I will let start with some decent non-magical armor and a decent weapon.
That sort of thing. Not giving anything major away, but letting them start with decent kit, unless for some reason their background they have generated says otherwise.
For instance I had an NPC Half Orc from a poor background who only started with some hide armor and a chain as his starting weapons. Later on a player took on that character, quite liked his background and stuck with it until he could buy better kit via loot.

 

[mwsasser]

I wanted to say something no one else has and it's not because I want to be a downer. But not all of your players will be happy no matter how much you try to make them feel good about RQ.

I've recently gone through a battle with a group on my end and fully half of the players like RQ and the others refuse to play it because it's either not d&d or some other reason. I've even been told by one person that they have no desire to learn a new system.

The side group of 3 players plus myself have started playing on alternate days with RQ and other systems that are non-d&d to much success. Sometimes you just have to branch out and take a leap out to try new things.

Good luck with your group!

 

[Loz]

The side group of 3 players plus myself have started playing on alternate days with RQ and other systems that are non-d&d to much success. Sometimes you just have to branch out and take a leap out to try new things.

Good idea. Hopefully your little side group will create a buzz about RQ and that will encourage those who've expressed reluctance to join to see what all the fuss is about. Then they add to the buzz and, hopefully, you see a sea-change in attitudes.

 

[PhilHibbs]

I should have added I'll be using the Elric/MRQ2 rules.
This means no divine worshippers and very limited healing (basically first aid and maybe some potions here and there).
The Elric Rune magic is very limited in healing really.

"How can I run a game in a brutal, unforgiving world with no healing, and not put people off the game system by having characters die?" - tough one.