How much for the Experience in the window?

[Supplement Four]

I absolutely love the Experience system in Conan 2E.

As Conan is based on 3.5 D&D, I was fearing the over-complicated, super-bookkeeping method I originally saw in 3E d20. I mean, that system definitely cover "it", but, gawds, it didn't do it in a GM friendly way.

Expecting that sort of thing, I turn the pages in 2E Conan to see...a small couple of paragraphs on Experience and character growth. That's it. No bookkeeping. No figuring experience points based on the challenge and relative level of the PC vs what the PC fought. No keeping track of everything that went on in the game so that XP could be awarded...

It's just a simple, the "GM decides" kind of system.

I love it.




Now...suggestions, folks. If a player roleplays a great encounter, or suddenly comes up with a brilliant idea during the game, I like to reward him right then with some tanglible game benefit. In this game, it will be XP.

And, at the end of a night's gaming, I like to end the session by reviewing the what happened and rewarding players with a little XP.

When major goals are attained, I like to spring some XP on the players. It makes them feel good. They grow their characters. And, it's a way of letting them know that they're on the right track (it's another GM control of the story, in a sense).

So..

I've read the Experience Section in Conan 2E.

But, I'll ask: What kind of XP do you award?

How much?

How often?

The rules in 2E Conan are deliberately vague. So, I'm curious what my fellow GMs do.

 

[flatscan]

Now...suggestions, folks. If a player roleplays a great encounter, or suddenly comes up with a brilliant idea during the game, I like to reward him right then with some tanglible game benefit. In this game, it will be XP.

That's the kind of thing I hand Fate Points out for.

When major goals are attained, I like to spring some XP on the players. It makes them feel good. They grow their characters. And, it's a way of letting them know that they're on the right track (it's another GM control of the story, in a sense).

Sounds good.

As to frequency of XP, I don't give it per session as I've found that causes players to take the long way to the end of the adventure. I prefer to give out XP at the end of an adventure. That also side-steps the problem of having a character level in the middle of an adventure, which can throw the balance of a planned adventure right out the window.

 

[Sutek]

It's just a simple, the "GM decides" kind of system.

I love it.

(lol) It's comments like this that tip you off as either (a) new RPG gamer without first hand experience with anything older than a decade, or (b) you're as old-school as I am and just beside yourself with glee at finally getting you hands on a good RPG bookful of rules.

BTW, Fate Points are handed out whenever the PC does something really heroic. That's how it is stated, simply, in the Atlantean Edition. It may be different in the 2ed book, because somewhere someone mentioned something about "writing three things down" so something. Just thought I'd toss that out. 8)

 

[Supplement Four]

That's the kind of thing I hand Fate Points out for.

Again, I don't think fate points are all that helpful.

Let's say our 1st level Soldier gets 27 points of damage against him. That's massive damage.

So, the dude makes a MD saving roll. His CON is 15, so his Fort Save is +4. That's basically a DC 19.

He's got a 10% chance of surviving the MD blow.

Let's go with what is likely and say he doesn't.

1d10 is rolled, and now the Soldier is at -7 HP.

For simplicity's sake, we'll say there's no one around to help Heal the Soldier.

So, now, he rolls to stabilize himself. That's a 10% chance.

Again, going with what is likely, he doesn't stabilize. Now, he's a -8 HP.

-9 HP comes and goes.

And, at -10 HP, he uses his Fate Point. He's Left for Dead.

This buys him an hour. But, he's incapacitated, so he can't move or call out or anything like that.

He thows a DC 20 Fort save. That's a DC 16, after modifier.

So...what did the Fate Point get him? An extra throw that he's 75% likely to fail!

Fate Points aren't really that helpful, are they? Especially at low level when you really need them.

That also side-steps the problem of having a character level in the middle of an adventure, which can throw the balance of a planned adventure right out the window.

Because of theI'm going to require training for level advancement.

I think something like this:

Throw level or higher on d20. Failure means a trainer required for advancement. Success means advancement made through experience. Natural 20 always succeeds, and natural 1 always fails.

Or...maybe something like this.

Advancement in HP and level bonuses are automatic, learned through experience. But new feats (and possibly new skills) acquired when a level is gained requires a trainer to teach the ability.

 

[Supplement Four]

(lol) It's comments like this that tip you off as either (a) new RPG gamer without first hand experience with anything older than a decade...

I really don't buy a lot of rpgs any more. I've got a couple I love to play...and that's it. So, you're half right there.

Long time gamer with years of experience gaming with a long time group. Not real impressed with a lot of "new" games.

Absolutely love the James Bond rpg, Top Secret TSSI, Classic Traveller, D6 Star Wars, and now Conan 2E (maybe a few others).

I keep up with (but really don't play) other game systems.

..or (b) you're as old-school as I am and just beside yourself with glee at finally getting you hands on a good RPG bookful of rules.

Yup.

Double yup.

I am beside myself with 2E Conan. It's a damn good game--much better than the standard D&D system.

BTW, Fate Points are handed out whenever the PC does something really heroic. That's how it is stated, simply, in the Atlantean Edition. It may be different in the 2ed book, because somewhere someone mentioned something about "writing three things down" so something. Just thought I'd toss that out. 8)[/quote]

It is different in 2E, and I must say that it sounds like it was better in AE.

The "foreshadowing" system in 2E is really silly. It's a bad mechanic (one of the few I've seen in Conan 2E). I may use the AE version instead.

 

[Sutek]

Hmm...intersting.

Just FYI then, FP as explained in AE, can be spent on LFD, Mighty Blow, Repentance (1 for 1 to rid Corruption) and Destiny, which was really just a deal with the GM to allow the player to have a meta-influence over the game story. It couldn't set him up as Thief Prince of Zamora or anything like that; those things had to be earned and played out. Instead, the example it gives is the PC is in a jail somewhere, and the player can decide to spend a FP to have happenstance intervene (an old allie shows up at the window to break him out, or he wants to discover a loose brick in the wall, etc.).

Gaining is explained as 1 to 2 points any time a PC "accomplishes a major goal, either personally or as part of an adventuring party." That's it. It clarifies that they intend this to usually be the conclusion of a successful adventure, but presumably any "goal" that the GM deems appropriate for that sort of reward.

Are you familiar with the Stargate SG1 RPG? They had a completely different FP system to either Conan or Star Wars that I though was even better.

 

[flatscan]

Fate Points aren't really that helpful, are they? Especially at low level when you really need them.

You do realize that's not all Fate Points can do right? A Fate Point can allow a reroll of ANY roll, including Saves, Attack Rolls, etc. Also, you can do Maximum damage with a weapon with a Fate Point. Or spend a Fate Point to know a language you don't have on your character sheet. There are a multitude of uses beyond Left for Dead.

Because of theI'm going to require training for level advancement.

Yuck. Not very Howardian. Conan didn't train for anything. He learned through experience.

Well, to each his own. Just not sure you're playing Conan anymore. :shock:

 

[Sutek]

RE-rolls? Is that 2E?? It's not that way in AE, and I don't think it should really. It's sopposed to be e point that alters Fate, thus the name. You get 3FP to start, and you had better use them wisely, because the stuff I listed above is all you can do with the, but they're huge.

One aspect of Destiny I forgot to mention is on-the-fly modification of yor character, like suddenly adding a language that he needs, as if he's been keeping it secret, or personally knowing some NPC from when they grew up together or something.

Re-rolls are far to minor IMO for FP expenditure. Weird.

 

[Ichabod]

Your example for LFD is not at all like anything we've seen in 4 years of playing Conan. Where's the rest of the party?

First, one of the other PCs will take an action to go over and stabilize the dying PC when there are that many rounds before hitting -10. If for some reason a PC is LFD, then another member of the party will scoop the PC up long before an hour passes. For lower level characters, yes, short term care probably won't bring them back up to positive numbers, but then, the party will either be able to rest or it will be a total party kill.

I suppose if you don't give the party adequate time to recover, then it will get slaughtered, but that's a feature of the system. HP come back easily but only if you have breaks. No breaks between encounters should pretty easily annihilate parties.

Anyway, back to the original subject. There's a loose system employed in our campaign(s) of giving enough XP to level characters up about every 3 sessions; we are somewhat behind that rate. We tried varying XP rewards and they were a hassle. Varying XP are still given out in certain circumstances, like when someone can't make the session or plays a NPC for a session. Most of the main characters are the same level.

In my other RPG group, we use party experience to where it doesn't matter how often you play as the idea is that a mixed experience party is a recipe for disaster and a discouragement to new players, players with busy schedules, or whatever.

I see no reason for XP in Conan, myself - just level up the party when desired and ignore the XP cost of sorcery. As for how I would do individual rewards, there's a variety of options and they can be tailored to what individual players care about: reputation, favors, contacts/allies, titles, stuff, minor situational bonuses, FPs, one shot bonuses other than rerolls, feats, skill ranks, spells. My original character's motivation was rep as I was sure no one else would care about it. Was never a useful pursuit, but it could be in different circumstances. Far more interesting were the miscellaneous benefits given due to what happened during play. I still have written down the bonuses for handling two wardogs that were killed about 4 years ago; zero mechanical benefit but a reminder of stuff that happened.

 

[flatscan]

RE-rolls? Is that 2E?? It's not that way in AE, and I don't think it should really.

It's in 2e, and why shouldn't it be? My players use it for Fate Points often. It's their main drive for getting Fate Points and as a result, they attempt more heroic deeds in game. The caveat is only one Fate Point can be spent per roll. So Fate gives you a second chance, and that's it.

 

[Sutek]

It's just a much bigger deal in AE and 1st editions. Fate, as in the cosmic eventuality of one's existance, man. Not, "Aw crap, I really wanted to brain that guy...I'll use a FP and re-roll." I guess FP are replenished faster in 2E then, because you wouldn't be able to spend them "often" other wise. Guess I'll head up to the local game store and look through 2E sometime. Sounds like it can both bring you back from the brink of death itself and help you buy a nice goat by letting you re-roll that haggle check. :roll:

See, I went page by page and typed up all the rules differences between 1st and AE when AE first came out. I'm just cool like that. (lol) So has anyone taken the initiative to do a page by page writ-up on the differences between AE and 2E??? Nooooooooo....

:lol:

 

[flatscan]

I guess FP are replenished faster in 2E then, because you wouldn't be able to spend them "often" other wise.

Again, see above where I mentioned my players attempt more truly heroic deeds for Fate Points. Fate Points have always had that attached to them. Plus, in 2e there's the player predictions. Which, again, allows me to fine tune the adventure to the players tastes.

Sounds like it can both bring you back from the brink of death itself and help you buy a nice goat by letting you re-roll that haggle check. :roll:

It can, but in two years of playing I've NEVER had a character waste a Fate Point like you describe. Usually, it's in combat, when the chips are down, which if a GM is doing his job right, is often. :wink: Or it's for an important Save, like for Massive Damage.

 

[Sutek]

I hear ya, but to me it's just a question of scale. One round of combat swinging my axe to hit a baddie just doesn't equate to surviving the Tree of Fate, dude. I just can't grasp it. Now, that's the way they did it in 2E and it makes sense to you - fine.

The SG1 system was more like it in scope, but didn't have the greater reach into mortality insurance. They could be used to increase a roll, increase your DV, activate Weapon Threats (no double-rolling to confirm Crits; you bought them!), heal yourself of som HP, making what they call Inspiration Checks (essetially a "I'm Stumped" roll to see if your character knows something that you as a player haven't considered or flat don't know). Then there were some Feats and other things that were activated or required a point expendature.

SG1 called them "Action Points" and you got a number of them based on your level that were used to add dice in the ways described above, also based on your level.

LVLS.....PTS/DIE
1-5.......3/d4
6-10.....4/d6
11-15....5/d8
16-20....6/d10

The GM gets some too, but he gets d12, and he gets an amount equal to the highest amount any player has +1 per player in the game. Expendature was encouraged, and happened often, and so did awarding new points. The flip-side of that was that for every point the GM awarded any player, he gained another d12 to his pool, so th more reliant on them the players were, the more edge they knowingly gave the GM. Pretty cool. Burning a point activated a die of the type that was legal for your level, and you just rolled that along with your d20, unless it was something like activating a Threat (which just happened) or healing one's self (which just added the value rolled on the appropriate die to you HP).

Of course, SG1 also used the Vitality/Wound opint system like in Star Wars d20, and not HP.

 

[flatscan]

I hear ya, but to me it's just a question of scale. One round of combat swinging my axe to hit a baddie just doesn't equate to surviving the Tree of Fate, dude. I just can't grasp it. Now, that's the way they did it in 2E and it makes sense to you - fine.

I don't really see much difference doing Maximum Damage in a single round by spending a Fate Point (as was present since the beginning) and spending one to get a chance to try again for an important to hit roll.

But yes, it does make sense to me. It also encourages my players to take risks and play in a heroic manner. It suits my game preference. You might try it some time.

 

[Supplement Four]

Well, to each his own. Just not sure you're playing Conan anymore. :shock:

I've read quite a bit of Conan, both Howard and non-Howard stories.

Conan does "train". He does learn from "trainers".

For example, it's with the Turanian army where he learns shortbow from the back of a horse. He did not have that skill before.

This is also where he learns to lead men with military tactics vs. the gurrilla tactics he's known as a barbarian.

In his thieving days, he learns much from other thieves--it is very much implied even in the Howard stories.

 

[flatscan]

In his thieving days, he learns much from other thieves--it is very much implied even in the Howard stories.

Not in any REH story I've ever read. He learns by watching and more importantly by doing. Only in a pastiche or another author's original story does he "train" in any manner or formal way.

 

[Supplement Four]

You do realize that's not all Fate Points can do right? A Fate Point can allow a reroll of ANY roll, including Saves, Attack Rolls, etc. Also, you can do Maximum damage with a weapon with a Fate Point. Or spend a Fate Point to know a language you don't have on your character sheet. There are a multitude of uses beyond Left for Dead.

Yeah, I can't say I really like those other uses.

Automatic maximum damage?

C'mon. This isn't the James Bond rpg. It's grim-n-gritty Conan.

Automatically know a language you didn't know before.

Right.

I'm OK with the allowed re-rolls. But, that other stuff isn't "Conan" to me. It's munchkin-super-fantasy-hero-stuff.

Not for my game.

 

[Sutek]

The only way to get skill is training, in reality or fictionally.

They don't just pop into you head. (lol)

 

[flatscan]

They don't just pop into you head. (lol)

Never said they did. But as characters act and face encounters, they get a little better at being a soldier, barbarian, sorcerer, whatever. Just like players using better tactics the more familiar they are with the system. The more a character swings a sword, attempts to move silently, casts spells, or whatever, the better he'll get. Thus, experience.

 

[flatscan]

Automatic maximum damage?

C'mon. This isn't the James Bond rpg. It's grim-n-gritty Conan.

This is direct from Howard's writings, where Conan strikes with a killing blow and shatters the weapon.

Automatically know a language you didn't know before.

Right.

This too is from Howard's writing. Specifically the Jewels of Gwahlur, where he's looking at a parchment and piecing out words from a language he just picked up.

Remember, Mongoose did their homework with this game. Just about everything you see in the rules is from a Conan story, whether Howard, a pastiche, movies, comics, etc.