How does Traveller Library Data compare to what's on the Internet (in real life)?

Limpin Legin

Cosmic Mongoose
Completely aware that Traveller was originally created before the arrival of the global Internet. Just wondered what Mongoose Traveller or modern referees/players have to say about including informational sources within their campaigns/adventures, in the light of the Internet and it's capabilities?

Some things I've noticed:
  • Traveller Library Data seems exclusively monolithic whereas the Internet is open, distributed and multi-sourced.
  • Library Data depends on having access permissions, whereas the Internet provides sources that are either subscription-based or freely accessible.
  • I have seen mention of data/information/news arriving late or being out of date, because of problems of distance between star systems. But the detail is sketchy at best.
Some of the published adventure stories depend on these characteristics, in spite of everyone's growing familiarity of the Internet's capabilities. Should we adjust our perceptions and introduce something similar to the Internet for gameplay, or might there be bona fide reasons for an implementation that deviates from current understanding or expectations?
 
Each referees picks what makes sense to him/her and what he/she likes. Sometimes the first encounter determines what is used by the referee, even if information later may contradict this first data.
Why should the Traveller universe be the same for everyone when each referee creates his/her universe anyway? In the late 70s/beginning 80s it was common that roleplaying system had the rules but almost no background, leaving that part to the customer.
 
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Completely aware that Traveller was originally created before the arrival of the global Internet. Just wondered what Mongoose Traveller or modern referees/players have to say about including informational sources within their campaigns/adventures, in the light of the Internet and it's capabilities?.....
.... might there be bona fide reasons for an implementation that deviates from current understanding or expectations?
Yes to a planet based information system similar to what we think of as The Internet.
Stretched out to cover the full System works well with a small bit of lag.

But the key point where Traveller is different is the 1 week of Jump = the fastest information can travel.

So new players have to adjust to the idea that if you are asking about details for a system 2 jumps away:
Basic information that rarely changes is likely available in the local data sources
Detailed information will be at least 2-3 weeks out of date in the Imperium and longer in other parts of Charted Space
Specific information that the players ask about a topic (What is the price of gold at system X) will be likely be at least 4-8 weeks out of date. Now extend that out across thousands of parsecs, hundreds of jumps.

I have used the phrase 'sneaker net by way of steamship' to help explain the communication delays.
 
It probably varies.

Each planet or system should be considered having a closed internet, having a Great Firewall.

Whether data imported from other systems is permitted to be freely available, or gets gatekeeped for any number of valid reasons, that would depend on the Dungeon Master.
 
I think the closest thing to Library Data, or an interstellar-scale pseudo-internet as a whole, is actually Usenet.

Even in the real-world, if we ever become an interplanetary society within the confines of the Solar System, the system-wide """internet""" will very likely have to be modelled after Usenet, simply out of sheer necessity and light-lag, with each individual planet/moon having its own local internet network.

This same model can be extrapolated into the Charted Space setting, with each world having its own internet (technology permitting), and interstellar communications operating via the Usenet model.

But that's just me two cents, 's all.
 
I think your original premise that somehow today's "modern internet" is the best source of reliable information is faulty. There's a whole host of reasons why research papers can't be based off of random psuedo-science posted on some poorly made private website. Colleges do not allow the use of wikipedia (at least not any worth the education) and right now there is a verifiable, documented phenomena where cheaply availble e-books written by ai have fundamentally flawed information. What happens if enough people pick up an e-book written by ai about mushroom foraging and that information is wrong?

I think "Library Data" is more akin to a quality-controlled research database, updated on a regular basis but certainly not open to the whims of the internet trolls. It would be more akin to EBSCO or even your ship's version of an Encyclopedia (for those that remember what that is.) I don't think it's an "internet" or communication system at all. "Library Data" is not the same as news reports or a bulletin board, which is why it's stored locally on your ship and can be out of date.
 
As far as I am concerned, Library Data comes in two tiers, depending largely on your social status and how much you pay for the service:
Encyclopedia Galactica
and
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
Edit: And depending on your skill at hacking computers.
 
Library Data might have been based off of Isaac Asimov's Multivac computer that he used in several sci-fi stories.

But I could be wrong.
 
Yes, I can compare the Traveller Library System to the Internet, Multivac, the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Fido Net or Usenet, etc. I specifically chose services on the Internet because that is likely what most people are familiar with. For example, via the Internet, anyone can peruse neighbouring data entries; click on links that take me to other articles, possibly situated on other computers; read entire essays on a data definition; compare a data entry from one site with equivalent entry found on a different site; etc. That is a game changer for me in science fiction roleplaying, because the change in the way we perceive and deal with data comms today is vastly different to the 1970s. The way we query online computer tech today is like telling the players half the adventure background before they have even begun.

I think your original premise that somehow today's "modern internet" is the best source of reliable information is faulty.
Nope. I cannot see anyone who made this claim on this thread. Perhaps if you want, you could point us to it.
 
Yes, I can compare the Traveller Library System to the Internet, Multivac, the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Fido Net or Usenet, etc. I specifically chose services on the Internet because that is likely what most people are familiar with. For example, via the Internet, anyone can peruse neighbouring data entries; click on links that take me to other articles, possibly situated on other computers; read entire essays on a data definition; compare a data entry from one site with equivalent entry found on a different site; etc. That is a game changer for me in science fiction roleplaying, because the change in the way we perceive and deal with data comms today is vastly different to the 1970s. The way we query online computer tech today is like telling the players half the adventure background before they have even begun.


Nope. I cannot see anyone who made this claim on this thread. Perhaps if you want, you could point us to it.
You're entirely right After re-reading your initial post, I apologize. I misread it to be suggesting that the internet is much more accurate than what library data would be.

As others have stated, information only travels via ship and at the speed of jump. If our internet today was that slow, it would not be the technological marvel it is seen as. It's great for planetary, and possibly system-wide information on a whim, but the internet is not stored in a local database somewhere, and to be able to access the library data in jump, or have updated data between systems, would require galactic amounts of data it to be stored locally on a ship. The interface could very well function similar to an html page, but I think that's more down to personal preference and is still going to be limited to the data readily available. If they declared it operated like Windows, they'd have a whole host of people upset that it isn't structured like Mac, or even a command line interface. Personally, I prefer to think of it similar to how interfacing with the computer terminals in ST:TNG always worked. Allowing it to be open to interpretation on how it works isn't a bad thing, so long as it follows the rules of the universe.

For what it seems like your describing, it sounds similar to something I dealt with one time. We used a report database system that required each user to return to the office and connect to update with the server daily. If anyone failed to do so, it screwed up the whole system. (but in all fairness, it was never meant to be used by mobile users that weren't constantly connected, it was a hack to get our agency to buy in. Newer systems work because there is a usually a constant connection thanks to cellular towers.) It was an awful experience. I couldn't imagine the entire internet trying to run that way, with a week lag in best-case scenarios. I would envision the library data checks file dates first, then only propagates with newer entries, instead of an entire database update. A full update would likely take a significant amount of time and need to be done as part of maintenance or user request. And even then, we're only talking important data, not an entire galaxy-wide internet worth of blogs, videos, forums, bulletin boards, etc.
 
Maybe you could consider there to be an Imperium-wide internet, just with a lot latency. Not ideal for gaming.

I imagine it works similarly to what Metlek suggests.

IMTU I assume that ships update the library data whenever they stop in port, and that C or better startports do that more or less automatically, both updating the ships and being updated by the ships that come in. Of course, if you come in with a cargo of ore to sell, you might not want to let the local internet know that the price of ore in the neighboring system has just collapsed by 50% and there will soon be a flood of cheap ore coming through. You'll want to keep it close, and try to sell quick before the next ship arrives. In which case, oops, computer troubles, sorry, can't update you now.

Getting info around quicker than the public sees it would then be a possible source of arbitrage - investment advantages could depend on your megacorp network having a J6 courier while the competition only has J5.
 
I always liked the titular Mindjammers (from the Mindjammer setting for Fate or Traveller), which were starships that essentially just travelled around updating each world's internet with latest info from the worlds it had visited since the last time it stopped by.
 
Another problem with library data is outside the imperium the accuracy of the data is suspect at best. Inside the imperium the IISS has free range to check out a system outside the imperium not so much. The first and second surveys where surveys of imperium worlds not none imperium worlds. Trojan Reach is a great example of this. Also this includes the UWP on none imperial worlds
 
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