how do you hit a target 6+ ship with a -1 penalty?

[underling]

How about this for a quick and dirty "starshell" rule?
Any ship with secondary armament may use 1 secondary AD to fire a starshell to any point within range (place a marker at the point where the starshell bursts). The starshell remains in place until the end of the turn; remove all markers in the end phase. Any ship within 6" of the marker counts as illuminated, +1 to incoming fire.
Also, any ship that is on fire is automatically spotted and has a +1 bonus for incoming fire.

That mechanic works for me, although...
I'm not sure what the ground scale is in VaS, but six inches might be a little large. That's a 12 inch diameter circle. How about a 3 or 4 inch radius from the "point of impact"?
I put something like the above in place for Grand Fleets.
The main difference is our rule set is hex-based (2000 yards per hex), and turns are 10 to 15 minutes. We say the effect lasts one turn, and illuminates ships in the one hex that's targeted.
It seems to work pretty well.
Kevin

 

[DM]

Yeah, on reflection that is a bit big. 3" is probably better. although that is greater than the typical illuminated area of a sigle starshell its OK for a salvo of rounds, which is probably what would be used to take account of target movement.

 

[underling]

Yeah, on reflection that is a bit big. 3" is probably better. although that is greater than the typical illuminated area of a sigle starshell its OK for a salvo of rounds, which is probably what would be used to take account of target movement.

I'd agree.
I don't have any real knowledge of just how big an area a star shell or shells fired in salvo could illuminate, but strictly for game play purposes a 12 inch diameter circle on the table is a pretty *large* circle.

I think you're on the right track by forcing the firing ship to allocate one secondary gun die, and making the circle a 6 inch diameter circle.
Kevin

 

[DM]

Ought to add that starshells can only be fired at ships that have been spotted by the firing ship, or detected by radar (no firing "on spec")

 

[Fitzwalrus]

Ought to add that starshells can only be fired at ships that have been spotted by the firing ship, or detected by radar (no firing "on spec")

I like this whole starshell idea a lot, and along with the proposed "searchlight" special action this would go a long way towards both dealing with nighttime 7+ to Hit destroyers and giving a much more historical feel to night battle results.
Ships on fire at night should be automatically spotted by everyone within 20", as suggesed above (we did that at our game too, but by the time the US BB's were on fire everyone was close enough to have spotted them already anyway.)
Do we assume the same thing for ships illuminated by starshell? The firing ship already has them spotted, but does the starshell illumination automatically spot them for other ships within 20" (like an onboard fire would) or do those other ships have to roll to spot normally? I would think the former: being under a starshell at night must be much like standing under the only streetlight on a very dark block....

BTW, starshell was fired "on spec" by nervous captains during the war, but trying to duplicate that in a miniatures game is a nightmare without conrtolling rules far more complex than VAS needs. I can deal with the "spot 'em first, then light 'em up idea".... and that makes radar-equipped formation leaders very useful indeed! :twisted:

 

[DM]

Yes, starshell would illuminate all ships within their radius of effect, both enemy and friendly.

I agree "on spec" use was used occasionally but to manage it efefctively in a game really requires hidden movement. See my earlier post about the Barents Sea game we ran a few years back for more on fun and games in hidden movement scenarios

 

[Fitzwalrus]

Yes, starshell would illuminate all ships within their radius of effect, both enemy and friendly.

I agree "on spec" use was used occasionally but to manage it efefctively in a game really requires hidden movement. See my earlier post about the Barents Sea game we ran a few years back for more on fun and games in hidden movement scenarios

Great: that makes sense to me.

In one of it's earliest incarnations years ago, the old "Battle Stations" rules had a mechanisim for starshell that actually worked rather well. The firing ship fired a shell out along a chosen bearing and a called distance, and a 12" diameter illumination marker was then placed at that point. (This was in the days of 1/1200th miniatures.) Any ships touching or on the marker were illuminated, and fair game. Combined with "dummy" counters for unspotted ships it worked pretty well.
This wouldn't really work at the compressed range distances VAS uses, but it is one way of handling the idea.

 

[DM]

Of course you are only constrained by the VAs table size if you want to be. many of my naval games are played out in village halls or by clearing out the garage. 30' by 20' playing areas can be fun

 

[Soulmage]

I've actually considered shoving the furniture aside and playing on our upstairs living room/kitchen area since it has a hardwood floor. Probably have to triple the ranges at least though. . .

(there is actually furniture in these rooms now! LOL!!)

 

[DM]

I read about a group of players who used a local town hall for their games that had (IIRC) a terracotta coloured floor. One of the players painted his models terracotta to camouflage them against the local "terrain"

 

[Soulmage]

LOL!! That's awesome!

Good way to get models stepped on though!

 

[DM]

LOL, tell me about it - last time I ran an age of sail game on the floor I ended up with two fully rigged Spanish 74s getting squashed! Now THAT hurts!!!!

 

[Captain Kremmen]

To come back to one of the very earliest comments made on this thread, and perhaps the simplest.

How about a simple house rule that you can not move at full speed at night, I doubt as you said, may destroyers would run around at 35 knots in the middle of the night, particularly in a guadalcanal type scenario where there is dangerous land masses nearby.

Cpt K

 

[BuShips]

Depends whether they are using flashless propellant. Scharnhorst was completely surprised by Duke of York in her final battle because the Brit BB (and most of the other Brit ships) was firing on radar and using flashless powder, so the first the Germans knew of her presence was when the rounds started falling around their ship. In the same action one of the cruisers was using old style powder which lit up the sky and she drew fire from Scharnhorst for a while, because she was the only ship the Germans could locate.

In her final battle, the USS Helena was not using flashless powder (some sources saying she didn't have it yet, while others saying she had used it up previously and began to use older powder). This fact, and added to that the large number of fast-firing 6" guns she had probably was how she got so much "attention" in that night battle and received three fatal long lance hits. :shock: In keeping with the style of the rules in VaS, I wouldn't use any house rules for various powder types, but I do like having a fire on a ship serve to illuminate it with a modifier.

This is her last salvo-



http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g50000/g54553.jpg

 

[BuShips]

LOL, tell me about it - last time I ran an age of sail game on the floor I ended up with two fully rigged Spanish 74s getting squashed! Now THAT hurts!!!!

When I first began playing naval games back in the early 80's and we used 1/1200 scale ships, we did two things that minimised on model damage. First, we placed vertical wires (not too sharp) as masts on the ships. Second, we mandated that all players were to remove their shoes when playing the game. :shock: With this "incentive" we never had ships being stepped on, as people were very carefully and respectfully watching their steps, lol.