How are you handing out EXP?

Concerning XP-time, I do the same as SnowDog, and hand out XP at the end of sessions. I also try to end sessions on a break, like setting up camp for the night. If someone (or all) make a level, they can take it between game sessions.

I understand the general thought that your actual playing experience should be reflected by the class choice. But I find that it limits the player too much if you pull it through so strictly. What if the party has to dig through heaps of scrolls in a library, say, to find a way to vanquish a demon? Do you force a Scholar level on them?

And on the other hand, how can a non-thief character _ever_ choose to take a Thief level? After all, he cannot pick locks and disarm traps and do all those thievy things.
I am also not a fan of having very long intervals between adventures. Like "the next three months" or "the rest of the year".

So, let's try to resolve this by defining possible solutions. Let's differentiate between advancing and acquiring classes:

- if the character spent at least some time in the wilderness, that should qualify to advance any existing wilderness class (Bar/Bor/Nom).
- if there was any considerable amount of fighting (and there usually is), any fighter-type class can be advanced.
- analogous for other typical class activities. Even landlocked Pirates can advance their class simply by sticking to their combat style.
- even if pressed into service in an army, a Thief will still remain a Thief in his heart (same for Barbarian etc.). Maybe he can pursue his line by volunteering for scout tasks, or forage for food (tracking and hunting), and stuff like that.
- All in all, I would very, very rarely deny an advance in an existing class. It has never happened in any of my games in the past.

- acquiring a new class is more tricky. Ideally you should have a trainer. If there is a thief in the party, he can teach his fellows the basics of thieving. Or the other way round, if the thief wants to hone his combat ability, any fighter-type (full BAB) teacher will do.
- some classes are easier to acquire than others. You can almost always take a Soldier level, if you get either combat training or simply fight enough battles (again, usually you do). You trainer doesn't even have to be a Soldier. However, the Pirate class should only be acquired after some time spent on a ship.

It is an element of D20 games that characters receive new abilities "out of the blue", without anyone teaching them how to do it. You can take any feat whose prereqs you fulfill, and then you simply know how to do it. Nobody needs to show you, you just get better over time.

Introducing such limitations may follow a logical approach and be realistic -- but hell, this is a fantasy game, there's something called Suspension of Disbelief, and not everything needs to be completely logical and realistic.
To make a long story short, D20 is a game, not a simulation. If I wanted to play a simulation, I'd chose Harnmaster or Rulemonster or something like that.

I will only add "as long as the players and the GM are happy with it."

In that sense, I included the GM with the players, since all of you play the game together. There are different playing styles and there is no "right" or "wrong" playing style. There's just time spent well or wasted, and if all the players (inc. GM) are having a good time, all is great.
 
I just wanted to thank whoever posted the original post about the "hacks" and using poker chips. The difference it made in my game was night and day. I ran my first Conan game tonight, using the "hack" system and tossing small colored stones at players which they could turn in for exp at the end of the night. The players who normally pay no attention and bs the whole time were attentive and useful all during the night! I ended up giving an almost equal amount of hacks out, because everyone was on their game. It might not be ideal for every system, but for a swords and sorcery adventure game like Conan is perfect for that sort of reward system.

The Nordenheimer Barbarian used a heavy wooden desk as a shield, biting down on his sword blade and charged down a hallway at pikemen, smashing one of them to the ground with the desk before grabbing his blade free and cleaving into the remaining pikeman. I tossed him a colored stone.

The Zamoran Thief used his thieves tools to pry a glass window out of it's lead gilding, slipped through the window, replacing the pane silently with a tacky bit of sap to hold it in place. He searches quickly through the room finding a concealed stiletto in a drawer and a sheaf of merchant papers. I tossed him a colored stone.

The Shemite Nomad used a grapple and line to climb onto a thin segment of wall, then replaced the grapple on the other side, and using rope use made a sling to stand on so he could shoot into the courtyard he climbed out of with near total cover with his bow. He rained arrows down on mercenary guards at a narrow point, slaying several of them with deadly precise shots. I tossed him a colored stone.

Just some examples of how it worked for me tonight.
 
Clovenhoof said:
Concerning XP-time, I do the same as SnowDog, and hand out XP at the end of sessions. I also try to end sessions on a break, like setting up camp for the night. If someone (or all) make a level, they can take it between game sessions.

I understand the general thought that your actual playing experience should be reflected by the class choice. But I find that it limits the player too much if you pull it through so strictly. What if the party has to dig through heaps of scrolls in a library, say, to find a way to vanquish a demon? Do you force a Scholar level on them?

And on the other hand, how can a non-thief character _ever_ choose to take a Thief level? After all, he cannot pick locks and disarm traps and do all those thievy things.

I very much doubt that you will get a level raising amount of XP from researching the library or I wouldn't anyway. There is always an exception, namely if you are a scholar (or trying to rise a level in scholar class to be precise) and spend a lot of time in libraries I would give the character more XP than if he was just wandering around and sneaking into buildings or stabbing people to death (I'm not talking about sacrifices here). So that would not lead to scholar class anyway. In any case while PCs were spending their time in the library the scholar would get more XP for the effort than soldier because the scholar is doing in that case what he is supposed to do and it thus makes more sense to grant those feats etc. to him, thus the added XP. Same thing for soldiers when they are fighting ... like soldiers. Orderly and pretty much openly. I hope you get my point.

About the problem of becoming a thief. If someone can teach him and he is willing to try to do things stealthily the he can gain the first level in thief class. I don't see any problems there.

Anyway, these are only my opinions and how I like to handle things. Anyway I prefer more flexible systems because then I don't have to think things like these :)

One other way would be to handle the XP based on how well players stayed true to the genre in general. When they have enough XP to raise to next level you can choose the class where to raise the level with whatever prequisites you or your group like to have...
 
rgrove0172 said:
I assign the player's character's next class based on their peformance during the previous level. If they want a certain class, they need to act like it. If they do something else, their next class will reflect it. A guy planning on being a thief next level who is caught and pressed into service and spends the whole level acting as a soldier, is going to get SOLDIER when he levels up, I dont care what he intended or how it effects his master plan.

Sounds pretty tyrannical to me, from start to finish. Doesn't sound like much fun either. I let the players pick whatever they want, because (1) they usually know what they are going for in advance so at least make an effort to act accordingly during the adventure, (2) they don't pick anything really wacky, (3) I would have a casual discussion with them if they did want to pick something wacky and see how we can make it happen if necessary, and (4) it's fun for the PCs to play the game they want rather than being forced to be certain classes?!
 
Slaughter J - I think your taking the point made a bit personally. I appreciate your coming to the defense of my players but I assure you they are more than contented with our style of play.

I let the players pick whatever they want, because (1) they usually know what they are going for in advance so at least make an effort to act accordingly during the adventure

Usually is good, so is making an effort but that implies there are unusual times when they dont know or that accomplishing what they intend is not 100% assured. My players are similar to yours and most of the time are in full control of their development, but my methods provide for those situations when they arent.

(2) they don't pick anything really wacky

So you would step in if they did pick something wacky? Thats all Im really doing, preventing something that makes no sense at all.

(3) I would have a casual discussion with them if they did want to pick something wacky and see how we can make it happen if necessary

Sure, if it were really necessary - and if you could come up with a way to make it happen, I wouldnt prohibit it either. Wouldnt have in the first place most likely, as long as its reasonable.

and (4) it's fun for the PCs to play the game they want rather than being forced to be certain classes?!

They are only forced by their own actions. I hardly call that tryannical. You act like a thief, you progress as a thief - how bossy of me!

Hey, I might be coming off sounding like a smart a$$ in this post, and if so I apologize - some things dont relate well in the written word, like the smile on my face and good-hearted banter Im trying to represent here - but seriously, is what Im suggesting such a transgression? Seems perfectly reasonable to me and my group.
 
What you do probably works fine for your group, but as you wrote it, every sentence oozed with an authoritarian style of how you handle your PC's advancement which seemed quite excessive. It's one thing for a sentence to be misintepreted from your intent, but to write a whole paragraph to that effect seemed tyrannical, that's all.
 
Reading back through my post I suppose I can see what you mean. I think whats creeping in there is the fairly aggressive and possessive way I GM. I know some GMs hold that the game is "all about the players" and that they are really only facilitators in the "Player's game". Everything in their games surrounds the players and their actions, they are the real centers of the game's universe.

Im afraid I dont play that way. Ive been gaming for over 25 years and never have. I develop a gaming world and allow the players to enter in. They are free to enjoy what it has to offer but the integrity of the melieu is my first priority. I wont permit something to occur in a game that I believe threatens it (reduces a dramatic scene to a comical farse, degrades the integrity of a carefully developed plot element etc.) and yes I suppose that means I wont allow certain player-character options if they dont make sense to me.

Ill admit that some players who still look at RPGing as a "GAME" wherein they seek to "WIN" in some fassion might feel stymied at times. My players however are in it for the adventure, to experience the world Ive spent so many hours and so much effort in preparing - so the've never minded making an occasional sacrifice for the better of the whole.

For example, one of my players has absolutely no experience with the Conan genre. He is currently working on some required reading but as of yet hasnt finished much. He is playing an Aesir barbarian but knows nothing about their culture and such, in fact he doesnt know a great deal about the Viking culture either so he has little refererence to go by. During our sessions I often fill him in on certain reactions, motivations and responses his character would typically employ, and he appreicates the help - as he doesnt want to come off sounding or acting "goofy" or innappropriate and ruining the atmosphere of the game. Now granted, this is an odd case but it goes toward showing how for us the adventure is more important than individual play.
 
I didn't use the "Hacks" System last time, because I didn't get suitable chips in time. But I suppose I'll start with that system after the party gained the next level.

Last session, five 2nd-level PCs were attacked be 6 mounted attackers, 5 of them were 3rd and the leader was 4th level. However, I went easy on the players and didn't use all the tactics and feats that would have been available to the attackers. Suppose they were trying to take them alive. ;)

In the end, the party had killed all except one who got away, and I awarded a flat 1000XP to each player, without doing any math whether that reward was appropriate or too big or small.

Now I just ran a D&D EL calculator over it, turns out it was an EL 8 by D&D standards. oO But well, I gave my players a real powerful superhero kickass point buy (39), whereas the D&D CRs are supposedly tailored towards a measly 25 point buy or something. (Then again, each of the attacking warriors was worth around a 28 PB).
Then I took the Experience Points awards table and figured out that the slain enemies were worth a total of 4.950XP -- equalling 990XP for each character. Hurray for me! ^^
 
Another take on how to hand out exp.

One way could be to think yourself and your group as an audience of a show that you are yourself acting and directing. Then based on how much enjoyment each player provided to the session through good roleplaying, dice throwing etc. you could reward that player.

So, if the player was inactive and/or his interaction would not amuse anyone watching his antics on a TV show then he might earn very little exp from that session. On the other hand another player who is actively trying to "please the audience" might get quite a lot of experience.

The bottomline is that everyone should enjoy taking part of the game, even the GM. Those who try their best to bring something to the ongoing story, should be rewarded whether they are good roleplayers (actors) or not as it is only one part of the equation.

How you let your players to spend tha exp is another thing that have been already discussed in this thread...
 
rgrove0172 said:
Just reading your post on the D&D calculator made me cringe. My God, do people really determine XP that way? Bleh....

I suppose when you play typical D&D, you are expected to. I never gmed D&D so I didn't care too much, but the tables always looked very complicated. The EL calculator is used to determine what kind of challenge is appropriate for a party and that's very complicated.
The XP table is pretty straightforward, since you just add up what each opponent is "worth" and divide it evenly among all involved players. For monsters you need to know the Challenge Rating, but for core races with core classes the CR simply equals character level.
The relation of party level to opposition level is important, for instance if a 9th level party kills a level 13 foe, they split up 10.000 XP, but if a level 20 character kills the same foe, he only gets 500XP.

I know XP awards in Conan are supposed to be story-driven, but if nothing else, the chart helps getting a feel for what reward is appropriate for what kind of challenge.
 
I actually wish there was some kind of guideline for giving XP in Conan. Now I've been just throwing numbers out of my ass, though I've used the D&D calculator as a rought guideline. I've been pretty tight with fate points though, giving them only for special heroism instead of common reward for succeeding in more mundane adventuring. I wonder if I should give less XP and more FP's. On the other hand, giving too many FP's makes the player characters practically invulnerable, as they can always use one for "left for dead." It can make the players take unnecessary risks.

Oh and I always give equal amount of XP for all characters/players. Often giving different amounts would feel pretty strange, as different characters just tend to shine in different situations. The only exception for this is awarding XP for using money for "non-useful purposes", such as carousing.
 
Without a system to buy different abilities with XP, I would just level the party up after N adventures where N is dependent upon how often you play and how long you want the campaign to run. For us, three is a good number as we don't play that often.

I would never give different XP to different players. That is the path of endless arguing over whether the difference is fair and having people quit because they feel like they aren't appreciated. If you want to do something special for someone mechanically, give them a free ability (or let them create an ability they can gain), extra skill ranks, or whatever (and don't make a big deal about it). As much as it sounds like a good idea to challenge the players to be better, it far too easily turns into a competition where the expectation was of cooperative play.

If you just want to do something special for someone without resorting to material gains, have the player be involved in the campaign direction or give them a NPC to create or otherwise reward the player by getting some extra use out of the player.
 
Ichabod said:
Without a system to buy different abilities with XP, I would just level the party up after N adventures where N is dependent upon how often you play and how long you want the campaign to run. For us, three is a good number as we don't play that often.

Crafting magic items and casting permanent sorcery uses XP.
 
I would never give different XP to different players. That is the path of endless arguing over whether the difference is fair and having people quit because they feel like they aren't appreciated.

I dont guess Ive ever experienced this problem. My players understand that EXP is relative to the level of activity, challenge, success and at times failure, of each individual. Its such an subjective element that I dont believe you could implement an effective mathematical system if you tried. Which is why, even in old 2nd Ed. D&D 20 years ago we came up with our own EXP awards then too.

Example from a recent Conan game - Characters spent 3 days in town.
2nd Thief - spent 1st day hanging out at various taverns, visited a brothel etc. (25 exp for experiencing the local flavor and culture, practising minimalist skills like bartering, carousing etc.) Lifted a fancy wine skin from a passing merchant wagon. (20 exp as he did it in plain sight and broad daylight using a diversion) Did some snooping for information on a person they are looking for but failed to discover anything, despite spending 20 SP and getting into a bit of a brawl he had to skillfully evoid.( 150 exp for excellant lessons learned and exercise of abilities despite the failure) Spotted a guard taking a bribe from a merchant and succeeded in bluffing the fellow into revealing the merchant's plans. He then interecepted a slave lord arriving to purchase a captive princess from the merchant and bluffed himself off as a messanger and contact. He pocketed 100 sp without doing a thing or getting involved in what would have been a dangerous bit of business. (200 exp - even though it was just 100sp, it was perfect roleplaying for his young and impetuous thief - leaving town having conned the big bad slavers easily)

This is essentially how I award EXP, it would be almost impossible to regulate something like that into a rule, and I dont worry about different awards for different players.

In the above example the Aesir barbarian in the group spent all three days in a drunken stupor, venturing out only once to check on his animal and have a sundered sword mended. 50 exp total for the 3 days. The noble in the group spent his time attending the local courts, watching the preceedings there to get a handle on how the law operated in the region. He also spent the better part of a day conversing with a visiting foreign noble at an expensive winery exchanging stories and contacts, etc. 150 exp for him, although he was pretty inactive, the information and contacts he gained would be valuable experience.

The players understand this perfectly and have never bickered.
 
I don't want to open a whole new topic for this, and it sort of fits in with the question of reward:

How many Fate Points do you hand out, and how often?

Do you balance it so that PCs always have about three FP? Or are your players always desperately low on FPs? Or are you generous enough to let your players accumulat FPs?

What actions have happened in your games that were rewarded with a FP?
 
Clovenhoof said:
I don't want to open a whole new topic for this, and it sort of fits in with the question of reward:

How many Fate Points do you hand out, and how often?

Do you balance it so that PCs always have about three FP? Or are your players always desperately low on FPs? Or are you generous enough to let your players accumulat FPs?

What actions have happened in your games that were rewarded with a FP?

I think FPs are so powerful, that I rather give generously XP and few fate points than the other way around. So far I have given one FP during my whole campaign and the most recent gaming session was number twenty-something. I gave each player one FP for taking part in destroying a cthulhoid magical artifact. The one character that did not take part in destroying the item did not get the FP. Everyone else did. There was definite danger involved in getting rid of the thing, so because he didn't take the risk, he didn't get the reward.

I¨ve ruled that to get FP, one has to do something very unselfish and heroic or simply win incredible odds, such as defeating alone a hundred ghouls or something. So far the characters have had several chances to earn fate points, but have instead fallen in to material greed. Often the choice is between a lot of gold coins or doing good for the world in general.... and the guys in my group seem to always fall for the gold. Heh, I guess they are playing out the corruption that will destroy Hyboria.
 
Since Conan has not set Xp system, I generally decide it upon what the characters have accomplished. When I do an adventure, I have some idea of the experience they will get. This is modified by not only doing it, but how it is accomplished, and how long it takes them to get it done. As well as a few other matters.

Each PC gets EXp seperately.

My System is simple.

Doing it 300-600
How 250-500
Time frame 100-300

The more harder it gets to do it adds another value: To make it comparison with levels. With every so mnay levels they gain, I multiply the EXP accordingly, so at 6 level, it is normally times x4.

I also add in factors of roleplaying. That averages between 50 and 200.

If they do it without pissing someone else off (which they DO NOT tend to do) 400.

If they take an opponent down without killing them (which they DO NOT tend to do) I add between 100 and 300.

I also base it on using class abilities, feats, combat maneuvers, spells, and skill WISELY. That can be as much 50 for each use.

I never liked D20's kill and get better method.
 
Yes, basing the experience solely on body count sounds boring. Even while Conan is a fierce fighter his not stupid either. So I think that factoring in the combat prowess, smart play etc. is true to the Hyborian adventures.
 
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