Hovertank CGI
- Thread starter ottarrus
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
There goes stealth.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well, 'sneaking' is a tank really is a matter of scale...
Back when the Abrams first came out, pretty much all the major militaries in the world were 'heavy'... mechanized infantry, heavy tanks, SP artillery, etc. And almost all the vehicles were diesels or multi-fuels. And, of course, the generators for everything was gasoline-powered. Lots of ambient noise.
Along comes Mr. Creighton and our turbine engines were comparatively quiet. Abrams units were able to 'sneak' up on UK and German tank laagers on exercises because they didn't have adequate scouts out. Let me note that I was never in a unit that did this [I try to be honest with my no-shit-there-I-was stories], but we knew the Soviets weren't about to double the asking price of their tank corps by putting aircraft turbine engines in their vehicles so the technique on how to do it was rapidly passed on.
Getting back to hover tanks, ground effects craft make a metric eff' ton of noise anyway. It would be impossible to be sneaky quiet, though with everything mechanical there are ways to make it quieter. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, here's a vid of a Canadian Coast Guard LCAC with audio. You'll see what I mean...
Back when the Abrams first came out, pretty much all the major militaries in the world were 'heavy'... mechanized infantry, heavy tanks, SP artillery, etc. And almost all the vehicles were diesels or multi-fuels. And, of course, the generators for everything was gasoline-powered. Lots of ambient noise.
Along comes Mr. Creighton and our turbine engines were comparatively quiet. Abrams units were able to 'sneak' up on UK and German tank laagers on exercises because they didn't have adequate scouts out. Let me note that I was never in a unit that did this [I try to be honest with my no-shit-there-I-was stories], but we knew the Soviets weren't about to double the asking price of their tank corps by putting aircraft turbine engines in their vehicles so the technique on how to do it was rapidly passed on.
Getting back to hover tanks, ground effects craft make a metric eff' ton of noise anyway. It would be impossible to be sneaky quiet, though with everything mechanical there are ways to make it quieter. To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, here's a vid of a Canadian Coast Guard LCAC with audio. You'll see what I mean...
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MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I doubt that noise thing applies to grav-tech though. Otherwise working on a spaceship would be deafening. lol
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well I wasn't talking about grav tanks... I agree that logically they should be quieter than a ground effects vehicle.
As for noise aboard a starship, I agree that the engineering spaces will probably be a lot noisier than most of the ship. This one reason why they're behind bulkheads. And yeah, the drives crew probably do wear hearing protection while they're in the drive spaces.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Are there any moving parts in a Grav-Drive? In most spaces that generate a lot of noise, it is due to moving parts or gases. (or a teenager with a stereo system. lol)
I am curious. What is the Diff to hear a spaceship's M-Drive while in a Terra-like atmosphere?
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
At the absolute minimum, there'll be turbines and other power noises. There'll be noises from pumps moving fluids [water, lubricants, whatever]. In order to generate enough force to move a starship, enough energy has to be transferred to the motive agency. So at some point even Traveller Jump drives will require moving parts. And moving parts make noise.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Unless you count cooling fans, my computer has no moving parts. I doubt cooling fans are in use by TL-15. lol. With grav-tech, why use mechanical pumps. That is sooooo low tech! (joke) lol. Why not use grav pumps and move liquids with gravity manipulation? No mechanical pumps required. Also, what are the turbines for that you mentioned? I can't think what a turbine would be doing on a ship after Fusion+ is discovered.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Your computer is not moving itself anywhere. It is not expending force, only energy. While connected, force and energy are not the same thing.
In order for an object to move it must expend force to interact with its environment. Ships need propellers, cars need wheels, aircraft must expend enough force to push the airframe so that the wings can overcome gravity. In space, a craft has to expend fuel to push its own mass. Even science fiction technology has to interact with the physics of existence in order to move. Such interactions tend to make noise.
Don't get me wrong here. If grav technology is utterly silent IYTU, fine. I think that it has to make noise and that's also fine.
In order for an object to move it must expend force to interact with its environment. Ships need propellers, cars need wheels, aircraft must expend enough force to push the airframe so that the wings can overcome gravity. In space, a craft has to expend fuel to push its own mass. Even science fiction technology has to interact with the physics of existence in order to move. Such interactions tend to make noise.
Don't get me wrong here. If grav technology is utterly silent IYTU, fine. I think that it has to make noise and that's also fine.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Actually, I don't have an opinion on this, so that is why I want to explore it further. Anything that has moving parts makes noise. I agree with you. I was just curious about M-Drives and G-Drives though. They get their force by interacting with the gravity of the planet or sun, not by expending fuel or even using ion engines which expel ions to make thrust.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Maybe vibration is the key to generating gravity, artificial or otherwise.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Pretty sure the human brain wouldn't survive if it were sonic-based.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Inertial compensation may include vibrations from the manoeuvre drive.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Wouldn't this cause something similar to "Havana Syndrome" though? Also, how would that work in an airless environment? If you let all of the atmosphere out of your ship, does the artificial gravity just stop working because you opened the airlock?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
lolz! I was just thinking that you can't transmit those vibrations though if you have no molecules in between the two objects to carry the vibrations.It is the very atoms of your being doing the vibrating...
think of the shadow ships in B5...
well it is nearly Halloween
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
And this is why the Vargr can't use odd numbered m-drives - harmonic dissidence....
This theory was disproven in -2234, when it was proven that 1 is okay, but 2 is not. It's primes, actually. M-9 is fine.*
*(Yes, I'm joking: But if I don't put this disclaimer on it, 20 years from now someone will quote it as canon in the fourth edition of Aliens of Charted Space Vol 1b )
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Something to consider about things as advanced as an interstellar ship is that noise is inefficiency.
Tolerances and materials, as well as gravitics replacing pumps can go a long way towards increasing efficiency and reducing noise... but you know what else can reduce noise?
Piezoelectric coatings/insulation. Noise gets converted to electricity. With advanced manufacturing procedures, these can be made into casings, along with a micro-regulator circuit that feeds the generated power back into the device or the power grid.
While students today can power lights with modified speakers, piezoelectric sound cancellation is also a thing.
MIT recently embedded fibers in silk that either absorb sound, or when configured with a speaker, emit the opposite waves to the incoming sound, which cancels it out. The piezoelectric fiber is laced with crystals.
After a few TL's of advancement, we can consider that this would be relatively cheap and serve to increase power efficiency while lowering noise levels that could otherwise distract operators during emergencies. OR, perhaps that serves as part of the basis for the energy efficient mod...
OTOH, the Sci-Fi tropes of engineers detecting trouble from slight variations in the noise and vibrations of equipment are based in reality. Designers might need to keep that in mind when determining how much sound to eliminate.
