squidyak said:
Wow, is that so incrediby wrong.
What exactly is so "incredibly wrong"? That L. Sprague de Camp took a Howard story and substituted a mention of Mongolia with Pathenia? Or was it the locations where the stories could be found so you could look it up yourself?
squidyak said:
Pathenia is the largest mountain range in Hyboria, analogous to the Himalayans. Himelia actually matches up poorly geographically.
Care to back that statement up with an REH reference? Does your knowledge that Pathenia is the largest mountain range in the Hyborian age (or Thuria) come from out-dated and inaccurate maps, or does it come from an authoritative & canonical source?
The only references I know of for Pathenia is
The Flame Knife by REH and LSdC and
Savage Sword of Conan #219, "Black Hound of Death", by Roy Thomas. Neither reference confirms your statement. Certainly these references show Pathenia has mountains, these mountains are high enough to be cold, and it has man-apes very similar to the Almas of
Mongolian legend.
(Hmm... Mongolian man-apes... yet I am "incredibly wrong." Yet I am seeing a lot to connect Pathenia up with Mongolia...)
However, those references do not show it to be the "largest mountain range."
Indeed, the Roy Thomas story connects Pathenia with Hyrkanian culture, not Khitain culture.
Keep in mind that L. Sprague de Camp also used "Pathenia" in an alternate-history novel he wrote called "The Incorporated Knight." In that story Pathenia is a medieval Europe location with stage-coaches and dragons.
squidyak said:
Please reference the following map: http://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/chrysagon_hyboria.jpg
LOL. That is one of the ugliest maps, and it perpetuates many cartographical errors (including the error that the continent is called "Hyboria" in big bold letters).
Here are some problems with your chosen map:
1. Calls the Thurian continent "Hyboria."
2. Kordafan is misspelled.
3. Does not place the Golden Kingdoms.
4. Does not place Atlaia.
5. Places the tribes of "Vale of the Lost Women" too far apart - and along a river of Death where they couldn't even drink the water.
6. Xuchotl is misspelled.
7. Does not place Tombalku, and spreads the tribes mentioned in the Tombalku fragment throughout Darfar.
8. The Southern Desert is too small.
9. Places the Mountains of Fire where the Taian Mountains belong.
10. Meru is too big and too prominant.
11. Pathenia is the wrong place.
12. Kosala is on the wrong side of Vendhya.
13. Khitai is too far north to be the jungle-shrouded land REH wrote of.
14. Hyrkania does not stretch from the Vilayet to the coast of the eastern ocean as REH implied.
15. Aquilonia is too large.
16. Argos' border with Zingara is not correct.
17. The rivers are freakin' huge!
18. The artist placed mountains around Khauran! WTF? Re-read "A Witch Shall Be Born." It gives a great description of Khauran. No mountains. Divided by a river. On half is desert, other half is fertile. Not indicated that way on
this map, though.
19. Speaking of Khauran, it is too far west of where REH placed it on his own maps.
20. Mislabelled "Ghulistan" as "Afghulistan."
21. Does not include the Trallibes (islands mentioned in
The Black Stranger) off the coast of Zingara.
...
and do I really need to go on? I could list more problems if you would like. Those I listed here are just the most obvious ones. Your "proof" is an incredibly flawed map.
(Actually, I would argue that the Chrysagon map is one of the most flawed maps of the Hyborian age available on the internet, yet a lot of fan sites use it. I am not sure what the attraction is.)
Instead, reference the following map:
http://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/vd_hyrkania2.jpg
It's not much prettier, but its more accurate, IMHO. Also, it includes places from most of the pastiches and Marvel comics - something
your chosen map couldn't possibly achieve.
To sum up: You claimed I was "incredibly wrong" with my post, but failed to show what part of my post is wrong. I, on the other hand, have offered evidence that Howard's original writing used "Mongolia" and that L. Sprague de Camp changed it to "Pathenia." I have shown that Mongolia has man-ape legends (the Almas), which makes the original inference valid. You offered a map as evidence. I have shown that your chosen map is seriously flawed, which invalidates your evidence. I have also shown there is evidence that L. Sprague de Camp likes the name Pathenia and has used it even in non-Conan stories. I say my evidence for a Mongolia correlation outweighs your evidence that it is a Himalaya correlation.
Thanks for playing. If you have further evidence on your side of the argument, let me know. I'll certainly play again.