Help! Starship Design 2: Detached Cruiser

pasuuli

Mongoose
Here's my next ship, very much a WORK IN PROGRESS, but any comments would be welcome. My price target is about one billion credits, give or take, and the specifications include:
  • J3M3
  • assault/rescue craft for boarding and landing
  • a platoon of battledressed jump troops
  • laser and missile weapons only
  • fuel processing capability.

Sidikur-class Detached Cruiser

Designed, built and deployed locally at TL 15 shipyards, the Sidikur-class cruiser is a detached long-term piracy-suppression cruiser. The Imperial Navy is typically tasked to protect thinly settled and technologically underdeveloped systems along the frontier. However, existing resources have insufficient endurance, and protecting a supply ship is a severe tactical handicap. Smaller patrol and escort craft such as the Fiery, Gazelle, and Lurushaar Kilaalum cannot stand up to the increasingly well-armed corsair vessels. There is a need for a vessel tailored to piracy suppression, capable of operating away from base for extended periods, with enough firepower to meet the increasing threat. The Sidikur, designed by GSbAG in 1100, is capable of defeating two Vargr corsairs in ship-to-ship combat, of supporting limited ground actions, and of patrolling for at least two months without refuel or resupply.

The most effective tactical use of this vessel is to overwhelm corsairs in a surprise attack; since the ship is not armored, protracted battles with martial vessels tend to result in significant damage to the ship. Another common use of this vessel is to "show the flag": by jumping into a system and immediately accelerating toward the mainworld, a typical corsair will tend to flee.

Variants

Modified secondhand models have been seen in colonial navies, separate from Imperial patrols.

The Mercenary Cruiser option makes the following changes: missile and torpedo weapons are replaced by particle accelerator bays and/or turrets; a single larger launcher is installed along with a dozen light 10-ton fighters (the drop capsules and smaller launchers are removed); a few APCs or Grav Tanks are added for platoon support.

Advanced technology variants also exist, commissioned by wealthy governments and corporations for special operations.


Crew:
three pilots
two vehicle pilots
two navigators
four engineers
twenty gunners
three officers
one jump troop platoon (about 40 troops)
frozen watch (14)

WORK IN PROGRESS Design:

Code:
Component                                 Tons    MCr
---------------------------------------- ----- ------
2000 ton streamlined hull                         220
+ Reflec                                     -     20
+ Self-Sealing                               -      2
+ Stealth                                    -     20
Jump drive R (3 pc)                         85    160 
Advanced Manoeuvre drive R (3G)             21     64         
Advanced Power plant R                      49    128
Command Bridge                              80     30
+ Hardened                                   -      7.25
+ Holographic                                -      7.25
Compact Bridge (backup)                     30     10
Briefing Room                                4      0.5
Breaching Tube                               3      3
Docking Clamp(20 ton)                       20      4
Model 7 computer, hardened                   -     45
Very Advanced Electronics                    5      4
+ Military Countermeasures                  20     25
+ Enhanced Signal Processing                 2      8
Missile Triple Turret(1) TLB                 1      ??  3+
+ Very High Yield                            --------
+ Long Range                                 --------
- Smart Missiles (24)                        2      0.72
Torpedo Barbette(1) TLC                      5      4
+ Very High Yield                            --------
+ Long Range                                 --------
- Basic Torpedos(4)                         10      ???
- BPL Torpedos(4)                           10      ???
Beam Laser Triple Turrets(18) TLF           18     72
+ Very High Yield                            --------
+ Long Range                                 --------
Advanced Nuclear Damper                     50     50
Jump fuel                                  600      -
Power plant fuel, 8 weeks                  128      -
Cargo                                      225      -
Fuel processor(40)                          40      2
Repair drone(5)                            100     20
Multirole Picket(8)                        264    212
Software                                     --------
- Jump control 3                             -      0.3     
- Evade 1-2-3                                -      6
- Fire control 1-2-3-4-5                     -     30
- Auto repair 1-2                            -     15
Crew/Staterooms                              --------
- 50 staterooms                            200     25
- 20 low berths                             10      1
- 10 ELBs                                   10      1
- Armouries(4)                               8      2
Maintenance Cost (monthly)                       
Life Support Cost (monthly)                       
Total Tonnage and Cost                    2000   1199+
 
Since you have the ship designated as a smaller, long-range vessel designed to operate independently, I would do the following:

1) replace the fast-cycle with a regular jump drive. there's no real need to have that ability for a generalized ship like this. Use the money/tonnage for better things

2) replace all missile/torpedo weapons with energy weapons. this will simplify your supply needs for long deployments.

3) you may want to look at having some sandcasters for extra defense, though with reflec coating and stealth you may simply depend on getting the jump on your enemies. particle accelerator bays/turrets would offer you a lot of extra firepower with no supply line issues

4) remove the drop capsules and replace with additional small craft, or say a pair of armed pinnaces. or even half a dozen light 10 ton fighters. the fighters will give your ship a much longer-ranged eyes across a star system, and are small enough you could carry a number of them in the tonnage you would free up.

5) for your marine unit, since its so small, I'd say you'd want about half of them in battle dress. which means you'll need a morgue for the armor.

6) since you say your ship will be deployed on long stretches, you should set aside sufficient tonnage in cargo to carry additional supplies, or maybe even a few ground vehicles (APC's or tanks) for your marines to use if they need to hit hard. your ship or small craft can provide orbital and aerial fire support.
 
Again, thank you, Sr. Havoc, good ideas all around. Even though specifications bind me, I think several of your suggestions must be included as notes on a variant Mercenary Cruiser design.

phavoc said:
1) replace the fast-cycle with a regular jump drive. there's no real need to have that ability for a generalized ship like this. Use the money/tonnage for better things

Ok, that's reasonable. And helpful too.

Also helpful is the suggestion to set aside sufficient space for additional supplies.

It may be that the onboard platoon are all carrying battledress; I will check the requirements. If so then a morgue will have to be added to the current design.

The following suggestions will be part of the "Mercenary Cruiser" package:

2) and 3) replace all missile/torpedo weapons with [particle accelerator bays/turrets]. this will simplify your supply needs for long deployments.

4) remove the drop capsules and replace with [... a] half a dozen light 10 ton fighters. the fighters will give your ship a much longer-ranged eyes across a star system, and are small enough you could carry a number of [troops] in the tonnage you would free up.

5) for your marine unit, since its so small, I'd say you'd want about half of them in battle dress. which means you'll need a morgue for the armor.

6) since you say your ship will be deployed on long stretches, you should set aside sufficient tonnage in cargo to carry [...] a few ground vehicles (APC's or tanks) for your marines to use if they need to hit hard. your ship or small craft can provide orbital and aerial fire support.
 
Your use of weapon upgrades seems a bit off.

According to High Guard, page 53, weapons and screens "..remain available for three Tech Levels before being outmoded or further improvement becomes too difficult to be cost-effective." And "..[o]ne upgrade may be selected per extra Tech Level." These limitations apply to Tech Levels over and above that at which the weapon/screen becomes commonly available. What this means is any weapon/screen has essentially three "slots" available for upgrading, allowing either one double-slot upgrade combined with a one single-slot upgrade, or three single-slot upgrades.

Because the upgrades you've selected are "double-slots", your torpedo barbette has the equivalent of six upgrades, as do your beam lasers. That's not quite "legal", given the limitations above. Of course, as GM you're free to allow anything you want. In fact, IMTU I've allowed any number of upgrades as long as the entity funding the ship design is willing and able to cough up the cash.

Regarding said costs, a related thread can be found at http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=89&t=47112. Again, this is all IMTU.

By the way, the Darrians supplement contains upgraded torpedoes that use the Resilient upgrade to make them much tougher without requiring a detailed redesign using armor. They're pricy because of it and extremely difficult to find thanks to them being a Darrian military design but it's still an interesting use of HG upgrading due to TL. And as someone reminded me in the linked thread above, the cost of TL upgrades is somewhat offset by the cost savings due to TL as well.
 
Advanced technology variants also exist, commissioned by wealthy governments and corporations for special operations.

This is TL 15... isn't it already advanced? :lol: :P
I supposed you are referring to TL 16 items.

Small fighters are great as stand-off turrets. 10 fighters = 10 more beam lasers. They can move the same thrust as the main ship, and use the remainder to dodge incomming fire. You basically get a lot more "turrets" after your ship maxes out it's own turret capacity. And yes, sitting silent, a cloud of fighters can dramatically increase the scanning range of the main ship. You may want to design a couple of heavy fighters, purpose built for long range detection, scouts!

If you are talking extended recon then I would think about adding solar panels. The ship can sit and wait/scan in high orbit around local watering holes (gas giants) etc... waiting for pirates to attack hapless merchants. When a pirate is detected, retract the solar panels, launch fighter, kick a$$. You can either greatly extend you power plant fuel, or reduce the PP fuel by a factor of 4 and use that tonnage for extra "stuff"

I agree in theory on more energy weapons and less "ammo" base weapons. But since this design has no armor, then you would want lots of sand casters.
I would rethink adding armor though. 6 points of bonded super dense will go a long way in deflecting your average pirate weapon.
I agree also that you did the upgrades wrong. I did the very same thing my first posting. Per the rules you are allowed a max of 3 upgrade slots... of course, some rules simply suck and you can ignore them. 8)

I have very rarely design military ships, most of my designs are ships a traveller group can purchase, so I cannot comment on the need for drop capsules and the best "bang for the buck" on large weapons vs. torps etc.... Drop capsules are used mainly by marines or army sending in waves and waves of shock troops (thousands of them) to invade planets an bases... yes? Will a mission for this ship class call for dropping shock troops from orbit? In any case, I would stick to the core concept. The big ship disables the bad guys, and assault cutters fly over to board and clean out any resistance. Therefore I think you should move you breaching tube from the main ship, and place it on one or two of the assault cutters. I do like the idea of modular cutters with ground assault vehicles in the event you find a pirate hide out on a moon or wilderness world etc... and need to "go in" on the ground.
Anyway, hope that helps.
 
Don't forget to have a small amount of tonnage dedicated to spare parts for both the ship and the armor/weapons the ship will be carrying.

And I agree with phavoc re: the drop capsules and replacing all ordinance with energy weapons. Small craft and energy weapons are much more versatile when your supply line is extremely long/fragile or even non-existent. And kudos also to phavoc re: the battledress. With a marine unit that small, you've got to get the most out of it and, again, versatility is the key. That means battledress. Far too many people overlook the versatility of a suit's non-combat capabilities. Battledress can also be used during damage control situations to move high inertia items like hull armor patches and open crushed iris valves in zero g as well as be used for a limited time in underwater situations. It can even be used to extend life support for an individual when the ship's LS system is overstressed or damaged.

For that matter, having multiple small craft can also be used to extend the mothership's life support capabilities in the short term and, in dire circumstances, can even act as a type of emergency maneuver drive by welding them to the outer hull and coordinating their thrust. Horribly crude but it can be done.

Edit: whenever I design a ship that's heading out for "where no man has gone before", I think about what multiple functions each installation on board can provide and what can I cannibalize it for, if necessary.
 
Sir Hevelin:

It is with great pleasure that I see you have agreed to the terms of your peerage's suggestions. We will strive to modify the design to your improved specifications! I admit that their points are compelling, and I was preparing a deviation path from the original plans of this noble frigate for your esteemed corporation. However, our lead engineer thought it unwise to disagree with your engineers; as a result he has been sacked, and a more suitable lead has replaced him.

I hope that we still retain your noble permission to go forward with this design.

We remain humbly in your debt,

Pasuuli Immugina, CEO
Ginasku Fusion and Steel, LIC
 
The design has been updated.

Capsules and cutters are replaced by 33t multirole pickets.

Torpedos and missiles are severely scaled back in favour of (for now) beam lasers. Particle accelerators are absolutely a viable option (will be sure that 72t of cargo space is earmarked for barbette upgrades).

Weapon advances are, as they say, by the book.

There is enough volume left over for a point or two of armour.
 
Have you considered replacing the power plant with a Fission plant? It's tailormade for a high endurance ship.

Right now you have a 49t fusion plant with 128t fuel for 8 weeks. 177tons in total.
If you changed the powerplant to fission, it'd weigh 98t, with no separate fuel required, saving you 79 tons...though the cost would be higher.

That savings could buy you substantial armor (at least level 9 ) for the ship.
 
billclo said:
If you changed the powerplant to fission, it'd weigh 98t, with no separate fuel required, saving you 79 tons...though the cost would be higher.

That savings could buy you substantial armor (at least level 9 ) for the ship.
A fission plant would still require fuel to be brought along, due to the ship's extended mission profile, because a fission power plant needs to be refueled each month. However, there would be a large tonnage savings since the fuel used per month would be 32 tons (annual usage by a Plant R) divided by 12 or approx. 2.7 tons. Assuming an average mission length of 2 months, that's only 5.34 tons of fuel rather than 128 tons. This would still allow the addition of an armour rating of 7, enough to shrug off the average laser hit, especially with the Reflec layer that's being added.

It's the hair-raisingly expensive MCr1 per ton cost of the fuel and the difficulty in wilderness refueling that may cause the ship builders to hesitate to use fission over fusion. There could be a partial one-time offset of costs by the removal of any fuel purification equipment normally used to support a fusion power plant.
 
SSWarlock said:
billclo said:
If you changed the powerplant to fission, it'd weigh 98t, with no separate fuel required, saving you 79 tons...though the cost would be higher.

That savings could buy you substantial armor (at least level 9 ) for the ship.
A fission plant would still require fuel to be brought along, due to the ship's extended mission profile, because a fission power plant needs to be refueled each month. However, there would be a large tonnage savings since the fuel used per month would be 32 tons (annual usage by a Plant R) divided by 12 or approx. 2.7 tons. Assuming an average mission length of 2 months, that's only 5.34 tons of fuel rather than 128 tons. This would still allow the addition of an armour rating of 7, enough to shrug off the average laser hit, especially with the Reflec layer that's being added.

It's the hair-raisingly expensive MCr1 per ton cost of the fuel and the difficulty in wilderness refueling that may cause the ship builders to hesitate to use fission over fusion. There could be a partial one-time offset of costs by the removal of any fuel purification equipment normally used to support a fusion power plant.

You know, I've been doing fission plants wrong all along. For some reason I thought the doubled tonnage included a year's worth of fuel. :(

So with that 98t powerplant, simply include say 6 months of fuel (16t); that would bring the total up to 114tons versus 177, saving 63t. If you wanted, you could only carry 2 months worth, but as you said wilderness refuelling might become an issue.

In which case you might only be able to get level 6 armor, with some more space left over.

Or add 3 months of fuel and install a set of solar panels to extend on-station endurance (4.9 tons I believe) (1/10th of the weight of the main powerplant - I assume they meant fusion powerplant weight ). That way it'd look like this:
98t fission plant
3 months fuel 7.11t
Solar Panels 4.9t (quadruple endurance on station)
110.01 tons.

This option still saves 66.99t over a fusion plant and 8 weeks fuel and it's cheaper than installing 12 months of fission fuel.
 
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