Spartan159
Banded Mongoose
Page 46, Hardened Systems. Would this protect against EMP as well as Ion? How are EMP effects implemented in Traveller, anyway? Are there rules somewhere?
Hardened Systems, Highguard 2e
- Thread starter Spartan159
- Start date
bluekieran
Mongoose
Yes. I think EMP and Ion are pretty much the same thing in 2e.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Quite:
EMP is specifically damage type "Ion".
Spartan159
Banded Mongoose
So hardening protects against Nuclear/Stellar EMP then? Good. Except now I'm back to wondering why 3I Navy ships are not hardened... /shrug
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Because hardening didn't exist in CT? The naval ships in High Guard appear to be remakes of ships from Supplement 9.Spartan159 said:
Spartan159
Banded Mongoose
AndrewW said:
No, but nukes and stellar flares sure are. I'd expect the Darrians to harden everything.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
How do the rest of us we know that? Is there anything in the books to hint at that?AndrewW said:
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
It's a rather recent introduction into the ship design process.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I think the simplistic solution was fibre optics, and I do believe that chipmakers are examining how to use light instead of electrical impulses to minimize heat and speed up information flow.
Whether that actually would make the electronics bulkier and more expensive, unlikely.
Heavy lead shielding or some future equivalent.
Whether that actually would make the electronics bulkier and more expensive, unlikely.
Heavy lead shielding or some future equivalent.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Certainly there were fiberoptic computers, but there were no generic hardening.Nobby-W said:
And not by coincidence, the military ships in MgT2 HG have fiberoptic computers, but no other hardening.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That's still a Seventies perception of how computers work.
There is a difference between redundancy, having a second network of electronics who are shut off to protect them against an electromagnetic pulse, and hardened, which protects the current operating network.
There is a difference between redundancy, having a second network of electronics who are shut off to protect them against an electromagnetic pulse, and hardened, which protects the current operating network.
Better analogy might be satellite control systems. They are typically launched with an 8x - 10x redundancy, allowing for massive degradation before it effects their operations. They can also be remotely re-written and updated.
There are also computer chips today that are impervious to EMP effects. But they aren't cheap, and they are only in use for specific military gear. In theory they would be immune to the effect of ion weapons or other disruptive weapons. Diamond-based IC's are predicted to break Moore's law and leapfrog past the current limitations of silicon (some variants are also immune to EMP effect)
There are also computer chips today that are impervious to EMP effects. But they aren't cheap, and they are only in use for specific military gear. In theory they would be immune to the effect of ion weapons or other disruptive weapons. Diamond-based IC's are predicted to break Moore's law and leapfrog past the current limitations of silicon (some variants are also immune to EMP effect)
Computers were the only electronic components in High Guard that had any effect on play. In OTU-speak, /fib = hardened. The only things affected in the rules by this, though, was their ability to ignore damage from weapons that did radiation damage. All computers were assumed to be able to operate in normal space conditions, including (by implication) high-radiation environments like the vicinity of gas giants. However the rules did not specify anything about redundancy or the specifics of the effects of radiation flux.AnotherDilbert said:
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
AMD is now doing fourteen nanometres, and promises to shrink to seven on the next tok, but with the same architecture.
Intel will probably hit the wall at five nanometres.
I recall that plastic chips, or carbon, will be cheaper though somewhat slower, to produce, which I think implied that throwaway electronics were supposed to have been made from them.
The thing about satellites is that you can't really send up someone up to repair components, so lots of redundancy was built in.
Intel will probably hit the wall at five nanometres.
I recall that plastic chips, or carbon, will be cheaper though somewhat slower, to produce, which I think implied that throwaway electronics were supposed to have been made from them.
The thing about satellites is that you can't really send up someone up to repair components, so lots of redundancy was built in.
With our current tech, sending a mission up to repair a satellite isn't normally cost-effective. However, with something like a pinnace it might be quite feasible to send up a repair technician, or even drop a replacement satellite in orbit and bring the faulty one down for repair. Space junk would also be less of a problem, as de-orbiting and refurbishing satellites would be quite economical. However, as with any flight systems you would still expect to have redundancy and rad-hardened kit.Condottiere said:
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The USAF has a dronish space shuttle, that the Chinese and Russians are alarmed about, since it can operate quite a long time in orbit, and pick a lot of stuff.
You could use it to repair your own orbital gear, or get a closer look at someone else's.
The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable unmanned spacecraft. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. The X-37 is operated by the United States Air Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies.[4] It is a 120%-scaled derivative of the earlier Boeing X-40.
The X-37 began as a NASA project in 1999, before being transferred to the U.S. Department of Defense in 2004. It conducted its first flight as a drop test on 7 April 2006, at Edwards Air Force Base, California. The spaceplane's first orbital mission, USA-212, was launched on 22 April 2010 using an Atlas V rocket. Its successful return to Earth on 3 December 2010 was the first test of the vehicle's heat shield and hypersonic aerodynamic handling. A second X-37 was launched on 5 March 2011, with the mission designation USA-226; it returned to Earth on 16 June 2012. A third X-37 mission, USA-240, launched on 11 December 2012 and landed at Vandenberg AFB on 17 October 2014. The fourth X-37 mission, USA-261, launched on 20 May 2015 and landed on 7 May 2017 at Kennedy Space Center.
You could use it to repair your own orbital gear, or get a closer look at someone else's.
The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable unmanned spacecraft. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. The X-37 is operated by the United States Air Force for orbital spaceflight missions intended to demonstrate reusable space technologies.[4] It is a 120%-scaled derivative of the earlier Boeing X-40.
The X-37 began as a NASA project in 1999, before being transferred to the U.S. Department of Defense in 2004. It conducted its first flight as a drop test on 7 April 2006, at Edwards Air Force Base, California. The spaceplane's first orbital mission, USA-212, was launched on 22 April 2010 using an Atlas V rocket. Its successful return to Earth on 3 December 2010 was the first test of the vehicle's heat shield and hypersonic aerodynamic handling. A second X-37 was launched on 5 March 2011, with the mission designation USA-226; it returned to Earth on 16 June 2012. A third X-37 mission, USA-240, launched on 11 December 2012 and landed at Vandenberg AFB on 17 October 2014. The fourth X-37 mission, USA-261, launched on 20 May 2015 and landed on 7 May 2017 at Kennedy Space Center.
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