Greg's biggest gregging ever...

[Trifletraxor]

Greg's biggest gregging ever: The Issaires, Inc. Fan Material Policy.

Lots of RuneQuest sites have gone offline since Greg introduced his paranoid and draconian Fan Material Policy.

I planned to submit an article to MRQwiki, but just read it's illegal according to the "Article Gathering Prohibited" part of Greg's policy, if I still want the right to post it on my own page later.

That man is a walking

:evil:

SGL.

 

[soltakss]

Greg's biggest gregging ever: The Issaires, Inc. Fan Material Policy.

Lots of RuneQuest sites have gone offline since Greg introduced his paranoid and draconian Fan Material Policy.

I planned to submit an article to MRQwiki, but just read it's illegal according to the "Article Gathering Prohibited" part of Greg's policy, if I still want the right to post it on my own page later.

That man is a walking

:evil:

SGL.

Why is it illegal/banned?

I was under the impression, and emails from Greg clarified it, that website publications just need website permissions. I needed different ones because I had maps on my site and those are expressly excluded.

Publishing articles on websites or forums is probably fairly safe.

Have you emailed him to clarify things?

 

[P08]

Whatever the intent, it cannot be denied that the obscure and misleading wording of the licence has caused a great number of owners of extremely high quality fan sites to close them down rather than face the (highly overestimated, IMO) risk of prosecution.

 

[Trifletraxor]

I quote:

Article Gathering Prohibited

"Issaires, Inc. specifically prohibits the gathering together and mirroring of third party Original Material on any Online Fan Soource, even if the site owner obtains permission from the copyright holder and their agreement to the "Concept Use" statement. If an article, write-up, or other material is available on the third party owner's own (or authorized) web site, any other Online Fan Source must link to it rather that mirroring and hosting the file as well."

I cannot see any possible reason for Greg to include such a restriction. With the decrease in Fan Sites lately, this is a prime way make sure the content goes as well...

SGL.

 

[Quire]

Like Simon says - have you actually emailed Greg about it?

- Q

 

[Trifletraxor]

Like Simon says - have you actually emailed Greg about it?

- Q

No... I thought the text was pretty clear. I'm still waiting for a response to my request for licence for my website which I sent several weeks ago.

I'll try again.

SGL.

 

[soltakss]

It can take a while - he's busy with other things than administration.

If you post an article on several websites, you are not mirroring the article. If they take a copy of the article and post it without asking you, then they are mirroring the article.

But, I'm not a lawyer, so ignore me.

 

[Trifletraxor]

It can take a while - he's busy with other things than administration.

If you post an article on several websites, you are not mirroring the article. If they take a copy of the article and post it without asking you, then they are mirroring the article.

But, I'm not a lawyer, so ignore me.

While that sound reasonable, the fan material seems pretty clear it's not allowed. I can't really see how what's written can be interpreted differently:

"Issaires, Inc. specifically prohibits the gathering together and mirroring of third party Original Material on any Online Fan Soource, even if the site owner obtains permission from the copyright holder and their agreement to the "Concept Use" statement. If an article, write-up, or other material is available on the third party owner's own (or authorized) web site, any other Online Fan Source must link to it rather that mirroring and hosting the file as well."

SGL.

 

[Sinisalo]

If you are British have a look at this.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_4.htm

Educational and research use (ie a Wiki) is covered by this. Please also see my post about people asserting rights a few weeks ago.

 

[Sinisalo]

By the way Greg I love you. Your my best mate.

hic!

 

[Vivamort]

If you are British have a look at this.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_4.htm

Educational and research use (ie a Wiki) is covered by this. Please also see my post about people asserting rights a few weeks ago.

Interesting. That is actually very close to the American version of copyright laws, we call it "fair use" doctrine. Our law is similar to British laws in a lot of ways, which I suppose is not surprising given we ripped off most of your common law (nothing more fun than studying 250 year old British property cases in law school). Anyhow, based on what Trif posted I don't think it is an issue of violating the copyright law here, it is more as if Greg is making this a contractual condition for use of his material.

I would presume to know Greg's intent and copyright is only a small part of my practice so I'm not an expert, but I would tend to go with Trif's interepretation of the plain reading of the restriction absent clarfication from Greg.

 

[Voriof]

Wow. Someone's got issues where Greg's concerned.

Jeff

 

[Trifletraxor]

Wow. Someone's got issues where Greg's concerned.

Jeff

Yes, obviously.... :roll:

But could you who maintains a shrine to the infallible Mr. Stafford and have previously worked with the legend tell us what your interpretation of the "Article Gathering Prohibited" part of the wonderful Fan Policy is?

SGL.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

What is the actual problem here?

The FPP says you can't mirror original material even with the original authors consent, but that you can link to it.

What this meansis, for example,
I create an original Godlearner School and post it on my site.
Trif' wants to create an Uber Godlearner site.
He can't just take a copy of my web pages and incorportate them on his site, even if he asks me if it's OK and I say yes. I can see why Issaries want this restriction. What if, after I have given Trif' permission, Issaries discover a problem and ask me to take my site down, or impressed by my work ask to incorporate it in a forthcoming supplement and ask me to take the on-line verison down in the meantime - if the material is mirrored elsewhere then they could be seen by the courts to not be in control of their IP.
However the policy says

"If an article, write-up, or other material is available on the third party owner's own (or authorized) web site, any other Online Fan Source must link to it rather that mirroring and hosting the file as well."

So Trif' can provide a link to the material on my site without breaching the FPP. That way, if I take the material down, for any reason it is taken down everywhere, and Issaries can be seen to be "in control" of their IP.

(Note that his is how Lokarnos works, as far as I can see. News stories contain a brief summary or extract that falls within "Fair Use" with the link going to the full article on the original host.)

 

[Quire]

So Trif' can provide a link to the material on my site without breaching the FPP.

Similarly, Trif could post his article (I bet I know what it's about! on his website and post a link to it on Mr Qwiki.

And if Trif is avoiding this since he'd rather not 'release' his website yet, he could always 'hide' the other content behind a holding page for now.

- Q

 

[homerjsinnott]

Sorry it just sounds like control freakery to me, and one of the reasons why heroquest is not doing as well as it could be and why there has been so little professionally printed on Glorantha.

Trif is not the first to voice that this is unworkable and detrimental.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Just got a reply from Greg!

The grand old man says as long as we obtain permission, mirroring is okay!



Sverre.

 

[Quire]

Sorry it just sounds like control freakery to me, and one of the reasons why heroquest is not doing as well as it could be and why there has been so little professionally printed on Glorantha.

Trif is not the first to voice that this is unworkable and detrimental.

Given Trif's post below yours, Bruce, I'll give it an honorary LOL.

- Q

 

[Sinisalo]

Interesting. That is actually very close to the American version of copyright laws, we call it "fair use" doctrine.

Yes it uses the term fair use

Anyhow, based on what Trif posted I don't think it is an issue of violating the copyright law here, it is more as if Greg is making this a contractual condition for use of his material.

What I am saying is that research on someone elses creations (for a wiki, frinstance) is fair use under British law as I understand it and you can't make contractual obligations that get past that unless the other guy agrees to it.

In my opinion.

People can tell other people what to do whenever they like, waving contractual obligations in the air, but if they refuse to listen and it is reasonable under the law then it's just hot air.

Without laws like the above there would be no journalism or educational research at all.

But you obviously have more knowledge on the subject so I'll let this one go ;-)

 

[Quire]

Just got a reply from Greg!

The grand old man says as long as we obtain permission, mirroring is okay!

Excellent! Now say sorry for being grumpy about it before!

- Q