Greater Feint

[bushidokid]

In the new splat book, there's a feat, called greater feint I think that allows feinting as a free action. A couple questions, does this replace the feat out of Thunder River? If you feint as a free action, are your opponents denied their dex for all your attacks or just the first one? If the feat doesn't replace the one from Thunder River, can you combo the two? And if it is a free action, can you do it more than once per round? Thanks in advance.

 

[Tegman]

I don't know what feat you talk about that are in the book Across the Thunder River, but the feat Greater Feint allows you to make one feint check against every opponent each round, up to your normal attacks, IIRC (I'm at work so I can't double check).

What is it for a feat you mention in the Across the Thunder River?

 

[Castel]

Actually a feint doesn´t denny you your Dex, it actually makes you flatfooted with a defense of 10.
About the feats i´ll have to check that out, "greater feint"... in what conan book is that?

 

[bushidokid]

There's a feat called greater feint in Across thunder river that allows you to feint against every opponent you threaten, there's also a feat called, I think, Greater feint as well in the new Hyboria's Fallen book, that allows you to feint as a free action. It's the interaction between those two feats that I'm curious about.

 

[Castel]

Probably the one from Fallen is a revised one, and from what you wrotte, you have no need for the first, since free actions can be taken as many times as you want (i think...)
But i haven´t got Fallen yet so i can´t really say anything about that...

 

[Yogah of Yag]

According to the Master Index Greater Feint can be found in:

p. 126 [TR]
p. 70 [HFa]

 

[bushidokid]

So does the one from HF replace the one from TR, or can they be used together? Further does the feat from HF allow you to make multiple sneak attacks on the same target or does the feint 'wear off' after the first attack?

 

[Philip_fry]

So does the one from HF replace the one from TR, or can they be used together? Further does the feat from HF allow you to make multiple sneak attacks on the same target or does the feint 'wear off' after the first attack?

I asked myself the same question. Unfortunatly HF keeps silent about that matter, what I find a little astonishing since it´s written by the same Mr. Darlage, afaik.

Maybe he could help to clarify.

regards Marcel

 

[Foxworthy]

So does the one from HF replace the one from TR, or can they be used together? Further does the feat from HF allow you to make multiple sneak attacks on the same target or does the feint 'wear off' after the first attack?

I asked myself the same question. Unfortunatly HF keeps silent about that matter, what I find a little astonishing since it´s written by the same Mr. Darlage, afaik.

Maybe he could help to clarify.

regards Marcel

Well it allows you to feint as a free action once per viable opponent. The rules for feint under the bluff rules state that a person is feint for the next melee attack made against it. So you get only one feinted attack against any single person in any given round.

But you could feint a number of people that you threaten and attack each of them once.

 

[Castel]

But then if you have more than an attack per round, and use greater feint, what prevents you from doing a feint attack before the 1st attack, and one before the 2nd attack, and so on?
Can´t free actions be taken at any time?

Feint isn´t that powerfull as it was before, the BAB bonus to sense motive makes it quite dificult to pull out on a regular basis.

I always tought (in Dnd) that with Gfeint you could feint as a free action before every attack you made.

I would really like to understand why TR and HF Gfeint are diferent... and i expect HF Gfeint is the revised one (i didn´t like TR´s one)

 

[Foxworthy]

But then if you have more than an attack per round, and use greater feint, what prevents you from doing a feint attack before the 1st attack, and one before the 2nd attack, and so on?
Can´t free actions be taken at any time?

Feint isn´t that powerfull as it was before, the BAB bonus to sense motive makes it quite dificult to pull out on a regular basis.

I always tought (in Dnd) that with Gfeint you could feint as a free action before every attack you made.

I would really like to understand why TR and HF Gfeint are diferent... and i expect HF Gfeint is the revised one (i didn´t like TR´s one)

Well the one in HF says you can only feint once around per viable opponent. You can't feint the same guy more then once a round.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Sorry I took so long to get to this one. I almost never read rules-related threads (I read this on accident, actually).

The HF feat supersedes the earlier version.

 

[Voltumna]

But then if you have more than an attack per round, and use greater feint, what prevents you from doing a feint attack before the 1st attack, and one before the 2nd attack, and so on?

That's what the rule says, one feint per round per viable opponent. What you can do though is when you finish a round with no more attacks to make, you can feint someone you haven't feinted that round as a free action as your last action that round, then next round the feinted character will be prone to a sneak attack. If he survives that sneak attack on that second round, you can feint him again, because you haven't feinted him that round.

Feint isn´t that powerfull as it was before, the BAB bonus to sense motive makes it quite dificult to pull out on a regular basis.

Yeah, that's pretty hard to beat. Nonetheless, there are some new rules in the Hyboria's series that can work to overcome that. Take for instanse the multiclassing variant rules for the Ruffian (thief-barbarian) from Hyboria's fallen, he can take Waiting for the Chance in lieu of the thief's trap sense +3 as long as he has 4 levels in barbarian. Then he can spend a full round in total defense, and the next round he can add his own BAB to his feint check, that levels things a bit. There is also the Read an Opponent rule for soldiers from Hyboria's Finest. You can make a sense motive check, modified by your BAB, vs a DC of 10+opponents level, for every 5 points you exceed the DC, you gain a +1 to either one of: attack rolls, DV, saving thorws or skill checks, which could be added to your bluff check to feint. If you consider that there is a new thief special ability that allows you to take 20 on any sense motive check you make, you could be getting a very good bonus to feint if you combine all those abilities.

I would really like to understand why TR and HF Gfeint are diferent... and i expect HF Gfeint is the revised one (i didn´t like TR´s one)

It seems they rised the prerequisites and made the feat more useful. Before, feinting as a move action vs evryone you threatened, left you able to deliver a single attack on that round, and if you were surrounded, that kind of sucked, they could get you before you could deliver the rest of your sneak attacks. Then, I don't quite like abilities where you make a single check vs several targets, that means if you rolled low, you could fail against evryone. The new feat overcomes these inconveniences.