jedimasterwiggy
Mongoose
Haven't got a rulebook at home. going through fleet book with Brakiri and trying to remember what the Gravitic Shifter does?
gravitic shifter
- Thread starter jedimasterwiggy
- Start date
Greg Smith
Mongoose
After an opposed CQ test moves an enemy ship up to 45 degrees.
jedimasterwiggy
Mongoose
thanks, quite useful on a ship thats hasn't shot already or one near edges of table
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
i never understood why you couldnt it would be an awesome strategic device to use.
Because gravitic shifters aren't precision devices, they are a bombardment of graviton particles that smash into a target and violently blow it off course.
I've never seen one used, they are pretty much a waste of time being in the rules as far as I can see! Maybe Brakiri should have a Skirmish or Patrol level ship just with a GS, similar to the Abbai's Shyarie?
I've never seen one used, they are pretty much a waste of time being in the rules as far as I can see! Maybe Brakiri should have a Skirmish or Patrol level ship just with a GS, similar to the Abbai's Shyarie?
In a game a couple of weeks ago a Brivoki used it against 2 Marathons trying to skirt the edge of the table to get behind the other fleet. The Shifter turned them so that the next movement phase the Marathons moved off the table edge and out of the game.
They would work great agaisnt a Boresighted fleet.
tschuma
They would work great agaisnt a Boresighted fleet.
tschuma
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
Aye, All Stop is usually a possibility in those situations, but even then it effectively takes the ships out of the game for a couple of turns as they have to stop then pivot.
I haven't looked to see if there's any combinations that will allow the player to take advantage of the following, but having to stop will also leave the target vulnerable to boresights, mass drivers, and boarding actions.
I haven't looked to see if there's any combinations that will allow the player to take advantage of the following, but having to stop will also leave the target vulnerable to boresights, mass drivers, and boarding actions.
They do require a certain level of stupidity on behalf of the opponent, to be used to make you fly off the board! It's quite simple, don't get within 10" of a Tashtak if you're near the edge of the board...
Knocking off boresight or making an adrift ship hit a planet (EVIL! I like it!) seem more possible. But still, it only exists on one War-level Brakiri ship. It could be a great addition to the Brakiri fleet if it were to be more common!
Knocking off boresight or making an adrift ship hit a planet (EVIL! I like it!) seem more possible. But still, it only exists on one War-level Brakiri ship. It could be a great addition to the Brakiri fleet if it were to be more common!
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
I would LOVE to see these be on more Brakiri ships. It is kinda sad it isn't. Its a fun bit of fluff that gives them something unique, and I'm all about making fleets unique! Imagine the chaos that could be caused with a fast (10-12) skirmish ship that was only armed with one of these! Cheap enough to be expendable and usable in numbers to get in and throw the enemy fleet into disarray!
Foxmeister
Mongoose
l33tpenguin said:
I would think that the power requirements for such a device would be quite large, so as to make it unlikely that it could be fitted to anything but the larger ships. I also think having them in numbers could potentially break the system balance for the Brakiri, but I couldn't be sure without seeing it in action.
Regards,
Dave
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Foxmeister said:
Which is what play testing is for! if skirmish is too powerful, fiddle with it and bump it up to raid. Regardless, I think it makes for a fun flavor to the Brakiri, and every fleet needs something to set itself apart from the others.
As for practicality or what-have-you; we have warships capable of destroying planets. Have you ever seen the actual amount of energy required to do that? It takes LESS energy to shift a planets orbit by 1% (which is ALSO life ending) than it does to blow one up. Not to mention blow one up in a rather soul-satisfying explosion.
The issue to me is a two fold, one its an opposed cq check... eh...
Second issue is that you could have skirmish level ships essentially making war level ships useless due to the way bore sight works. So here again we have a rule (bore sight) severely hamstringing what you can do in the game.
Whole fleets are completely rendered useless if this gets more widespread distribution. Especially as a number of these ships need to get close to fire, and are likely to suffer the effects of this.
Maybe if you had shifters only able to shift ships their own size or smaller?
Ripple
Second issue is that you could have skirmish level ships essentially making war level ships useless due to the way bore sight works. So here again we have a rule (bore sight) severely hamstringing what you can do in the game.
Whole fleets are completely rendered useless if this gets more widespread distribution. Especially as a number of these ships need to get close to fire, and are likely to suffer the effects of this.
Maybe if you had shifters only able to shift ships their own size or smaller?
Ripple
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Ripple said:
I agree, and again, its all about play testing. If this were a skirmish or raid level ship with ONLY the shifter as a weapon, you are spending points on something that, unless used very carefully, wont win a fight. Also, depending on how much armor is on that ship, it isn't going to last long since it is more than likely going to have to get within the range of a war level ships secondaries to turn it. I don't know many skirmish ships that can last long against the amount of AD war level ships can throw within 10 inches. More so if you decrease the range further on shifters on lower PL ships. A shifter with a range of 4 would mean the skirmish level ship is probably going to suck on a full round of secondary fire before it gets in range to use it.
I could be wrong about the next move off the table, I only got the details of the battle. I think by that time it was over. It definetly changed the course of the game. I think he was trying to use APTE and got hit by Comms Disrupters the turn before, which slowed them down.
Having them on War level and high is appropriate, as Ripple hints at, it would completely unbalance the game.
tschuma
Having them on War level and high is appropriate, as Ripple hints at, it would completely unbalance the game.
tschuma
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
How about this for an idea for alternative appoach to Grav Shifters:
Grav Shifters get an AD score and are either Beam or Mini-beam weapons (Beam for heaver examples, Mini-beam for lighter examples). The number of hits needed to shift a ship by up to 45 deg is dependant on the size (either hull points or PL*) of the ship. If you score a multiple number of hits to that required, you can turn the target ship that many times.
As an example, if it was done by PL, with the required number of hits being:
Patrol - 1
Skirmish - 2
Raid - 3
Battle - 4
War - 5
Armageddon - 6
4 hits would allow you to turn a Patrol ship in any direction you want, a Skirmish ship up to 90 (2x45) deg, or a Raid or Battle ship up to 45 deg.
You could then have smaller ships with only 1 or 2 AD of minibeam Grav Shifters, and they wouldn't be able to touch anything larger than Patrol or Skirmish level ships (without working as a squadron at least). An Armageddon level ship may carry multiple AD of beam Grav Shifters, and would be able to shift other Armageddon ships by a small amount or multiple smaller ships by larger amounts.
* This would be left as an inevitable arguement for another time.
Grav Shifters get an AD score and are either Beam or Mini-beam weapons (Beam for heaver examples, Mini-beam for lighter examples). The number of hits needed to shift a ship by up to 45 deg is dependant on the size (either hull points or PL*) of the ship. If you score a multiple number of hits to that required, you can turn the target ship that many times.
As an example, if it was done by PL, with the required number of hits being:
Patrol - 1
Skirmish - 2
Raid - 3
Battle - 4
War - 5
Armageddon - 6
4 hits would allow you to turn a Patrol ship in any direction you want, a Skirmish ship up to 90 (2x45) deg, or a Raid or Battle ship up to 45 deg.
You could then have smaller ships with only 1 or 2 AD of minibeam Grav Shifters, and they wouldn't be able to touch anything larger than Patrol or Skirmish level ships (without working as a squadron at least). An Armageddon level ship may carry multiple AD of beam Grav Shifters, and would be able to shift other Armageddon ships by a small amount or multiple smaller ships by larger amounts.
* This would be left as an inevitable arguement for another time.
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
That would also result in debate because of ships like the Explorer. PL is not an indicator of size. 
I think that if the focus is kept on JUST what the results of giving shifters to lower level PL craft are and at what sort of ranges they are able to use them, then you can avoid some of the balance issues that might come up.
As I made an example before, can you imagine trying to get a ship with only 12-18 damage points within 4 inches of a Ka'Bin'Tak?
I think that if the focus is kept on JUST what the results of giving shifters to lower level PL craft are and at what sort of ranges they are able to use them, then you can avoid some of the balance issues that might come up.
As I made an example before, can you imagine trying to get a ship with only 12-18 damage points within 4 inches of a Ka'Bin'Tak?
nekomata fuyu
Mongoose
That's why I said that exactly what you use as an indicator of size should be left to a later argument. Personally I prefer using hull points, but I know that enough people prefer PL that I thought I would keep it simple and give the example using that.
I do feel it appropriate though that a weapon that can budge a Ka'Bin'Tak can spin a Tethys on the spot, if only suitable rules can be found to represent that.
I do feel it appropriate though that a weapon that can budge a Ka'Bin'Tak can spin a Tethys on the spot, if only suitable rules can be found to represent that.
