Grandmaster Levels

[Silent Wolf]

Well, based on the passing the torch paragraph in the GM section of the book, and the vast wealth of other things that need to still be explored. I think it is probably safe to say we won't be seeing the Grandmaster Disciplines anytime in the immediate future. However since I need those lofty abilities to transfer a character, I've been trying to cobble them together using the disciplines in the book, some AD&D spells and abilities, the actual game books themselves, and the truly excellent work thats allowed me to play a Kai lord in AD&D up till now found here:

http://www.pobursky.com/ADD.htm

That said I am still learning the D20 system, so if anyone wants to take a stab at looking at my work and nudging or pushing me one direction or another that would be great. Heck even if you look at what I've done and wish to just outright politely inquiring about my sanity thats fine too. Just message me here and I'll email the file, rather then trying to post it all here as it is rather large and growing. I should be done within a day or so, as I am just toying with it in my spare time essentially. On a similar note, based off the Sommerswerd anyone want to take a crack at what Skaarn-Ska's abilities would be?

 

[SableWyvern]

Feel free to send me a copy. I'm fairly busy at the moment, so I don't know when I'll get back to you on it, but I will endeavour to do so when I can.

 

[Peregrine]

It's about time someone tried it. Every other Kai Lord RPG class I've seen either doesn't try Grand Master levels or claims that the author is "working on it".

On your version: I was a little surprised at first by the medium armour limitation to Assimilance. It's understandable, I suppose, given that we don't normally see a Kai Lord in anything heavier than a Chainmail Waistcoat, but this is a Grand Master we're talking about. I would have expected a penalty rather than an absolute limitation.
Secondly, the requirements section makes it sound like the character goes from Master to Grand Master in one step if they quest for the Lorestones. Perhaps it should be stated that this quest will involve the character gaining Magnakai ranks and progressing to Grand Master, at which point they can start taking this class up?
Also, there's a typo - under Sun Lord: Kai-surge, psionic is spelt "pisonic"
Other than that, nothing immediately leaps out at me as questionable. I'm no expert, of course (or I might have tried it myself already :wink: ), so I'll probably have to look some things up (like how closely Plane Shift at will matches the ability to pass through Shadow Gates), but it looks good to me...

...as far as it goes. It seems fairly uniquely geared to a recreation of Lone Wolf himself, especially with the quest for the Lorestones requirement. But it seems to me that a Grand Master class would see the most use if it could be used to create New Order characters. As I said, I'm not really qualified to assemble a class like this, but I have put some thought into the question of the New Order Kai Grand Master Disciplines in the past and come up with a way that someone else could do it. :wink:
See, all Grand Masters learn advanced versions of the ten Kai skills, and certain new "mystical" skills beyond this. Lone Wolf only had Old Kingdom Magi-magic and Left-handed Kai-alchemy open to him, but the later GMs also have Herbmastery, Astrology, Elementalism and Bardsmanship. The problem with using this as the model for an RPG class is that the Grand Master Senior starts with four Disciplines, not one, and the Supreme Master ends with fifteen, not the full set of sixteen. So what I thought is that the Lone Wolf progression could be used with a New Order set of Disciplines.

Thus, in addition to the ten Kai Disciplines, a Grand Master delves into the mystic secrets practised by others. In doing this, blending the abilities of the Kai with arcane lore, the Grand Master expands his powers greatly; indeed, to reach his full potential as a Supreme Master, a Kai Lord must study two other disciplines. [I'm not sure whether to make this "at least two", allowing the Grand Master to explore more than two at the cost of not learning one or more core Kai Disciplines.]
Each mystical Discipline is gained in the same way as an ordinary Grand Master Discipline and contributes to the Grand Master's rank. However, a Grand Master must have a tutor in the art he seeks to understand. Six fields of lore may be studied at the Kai Monastery:
Kai-alchemy: This is the name given to Left-handed magic as studied by the Kai. It was taught to Lone Wolf by Guildmaster Banedon of the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star, and now Lone Wolf and Banedon teach the next generation of Kai Grand Masters.
Magi-magic: This is the Old Kingdom battle-magic taught to the Vakeros of Dessi. Lone Wolf learnt this magic from Lord Rimoah, and now the New Order Grand Masters learn from him.
Similar descriptions could be written for Astrology, Bardsmanship, Elementalism and Herbmastery, possibly with flavour text telling why they're now taught at the Monastery. (For instance, Astrology is similar to the studies of Sages like Gwynian of Varetta, and I'm sure someone from Bautar could have volunteered to teach the Kai Herbmastery.)

Phew. Sorry, just wanted to get that idea down. Anyway, it's there if you or anyone wants to use it.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Thats a really great idea there, though for the record that is not my work. I've used that to play a Kai lord before, and quite successfully at that. I have the utmost respect for the author, whom I've spoken to via email before. I'd never take credit for his hard work. I'm just trying to use it as a base to transfer some of the disciplines into a form a bit more similar to those in the core book.

On that note, with none of the new order books at my disposal I am only including the disciplines as presented up to Book 20. But if anyone wants to take a crack at Astrology, Bardsmanship, Elementalism and Herbmastery I'd love to add it in

 

[Peregrine]

*rereads your first post* Oh yes. My mistake, sorry. Well in that case, I'd be interested in seeing your Grand Master interpretation...

 

[WinterHawk]

If someone does wantto work on this and get something solid done in line with the new Tier System I will host it.

 

[Kekataag]

If someone does wantto work on this and get something solid done in line with the new Tier System I will host it.

I have got one.
It even has the Disciplines of Astrology, Bardmanship, Elementalism and Herbmastery. This should take you to 35th Level or there abouts. As discussed, I shall post it over on the Tower of the Sun once I have finished making it nice for people to read. I am looking at the end of next week.

As me how hard balancing Kai Alchemy and Magi Magic was!

 

[Anonymous]

I have got one.
It even has the Disciplines of Astrology, Bardmanship, Elementalism and Herbmastery. This should take you to 35th Level or there abouts. As discussed, I shall post it over on the Tower of the Sun once I have finished making it nice for people to read. I am looking at the end of next week.

As me how hard balancing Kai Alchemy and Magi Magic was!

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I never got to have a nifty New Order experience... *sigh* the woahs of being an American.

-Bright Rune

 

[Kekataag]

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I never got to have a nifty New Order experience... *sigh* the woahs of being an American.

Dude..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2229&item=7923229376&rd=1

Good luck.

 

[Kekataag]

*bump*

As promised (and only 3.5 days late), a fully workable Kai Grand Master advanced character class is available as part of the Book of the Magnakai download over at Tower of the Sun: http://2e1x1.net/lonewolf//index.php


Enjoy.

 

[Winter Wolf]

Great piece of work!

Everybody go and get it now! You'll not be disapointed.

 

[redlaco]

I admit I only skimmed through it so far, but it looks amazing and thorough. Who knows, maybe Kekataag will be the next one enlisted to develop the Lone Wolf line. I'm sure with a few tweaks here and there it could be published. But I'm getting ahead of myself, now. I must first read it to the end... Still, I'm amazed by the amount of sweat and love that went into this.

 

[WinterHawk]

*bump*

As promised (and only 3.5 days late), a fully workable Kai Grand Master advanced character class is available as part of the Book of the Magnakai download over at Tower of the Sun: http://2e1x1.net/lonewolf//index.php


Enjoy.

Just need to be a registered user to download, helps me control the bandwidth a little.

 

[redlaco]

Mmmh, I just read the afterword and I see it has been submitted for the Staff Writer position. That explains the quality of the file. Thanks again Kaketaag for this outstanding contribution to this blooming line. If this submission has not been chosen, that says a lot about the quality of the competition...

 

[columbob]

Mmmh, I just read the afterword and I see it has been submitted for the Staff Writer position. That explains the quality of the file. Thanks again Kaketaag for this outstanding contribution to this blooming line. If this submission has not been chosen, that says a lot about the quality of the competition...

Heheh, you've now got 666 posts! :shock:

 

[Winter Wolf]

Heheh, you've now got 666 posts! :shock:

Last we'll see of him. :lol:

 

[Kekataag]

I'm sure with a few tweaks here and there it could be published. But I'm getting ahead of myself, now. I must first read it to the end... Still, I'm amazed by the amount of sweat and love that went into this.

Please tweak away!

There is a forum over at Tower of the Sun for tweaks, comments and whatever else. I'd prefer people to read through and give me an honest and constructive opinion. It still needs to be thoroughly playtested. To date, my group is the only one to have delved into it. Once I get some agreeance on what rules need to be changed, I'll publish an errata/revised Book of the Magnakai.

It's all about getting your name out there, folks. My writing is still a little rusty, but it is getting better.

 

[Anonymous]

Kekataag, I have looked some of it over (the disciplines especially) and I have to say you worked very hard, and it really shows! great formatting, good prose, and a lot of thought and hard work went into this.

However, I have to say the new disciplines you provided are too powerful, and some do not fit witht he kai lord. For instance, holiness does not, imo, mesh well with the kai concept, which is at heart a mystical ranger. Also, herbalism seems stronger than the dessi's alchemy, which should not be the case. Some of the disciplines can be combined to become game breakingly powerful; for instance chanting and herbology can combine to increase the kai lords armor class against magik to +4, in one round. For a kai discipline (under level 10) this is too strong. I liked the balance discipline quite a bit though, and the others were nice as well.

This is only constructive criticism; as I mentioned before you have done a great job, one I myself could never come close to accomplishing in even my dreams. I will post some more comments when I read more.

 

[redlaco]

Heheh, you've now got 666 posts! :shock:

Last we'll see of him. :lol:

Not so fast Columbob, I'm not finished yet ! 8)
I plan to attain the rank of "Lesser Spotted Mongoose" eventually...