Good Sportsmanship in Tourneys
- Thread starter Clanger
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Captain Jonah
Mongoose
Clanger said:
Touching ANOTHER GAMERS DICE :shock: :shock: :shock:
Just a minute. This is a family forum. We get youngsters here. Discussing such matters in public. Disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Such things are NOT talked about in polite society.
Good sportsmanship is one thing, getting perverted "In Public" is entirely different. Please keep your strange and kinky behaviour to the privacy of your own home.
Touching another gamers Dice indeed.
Weirdo :roll:
:lol: :wink:
Still Good sportsmanship should be judged not just by the players but by the people watching who have no stake in the game and can therefore judge (in theory) without bias.
Re Munchkin powergamers (GW players). Its odd, there are far more of the nasty cheating, rules loopholing gits playing 40K than fantasy, I have met a few unpleasant Fantasy GWers but mostly its the 40K types. Maybe its the whole death and destruction, end of the universe, fight to the bitter end theme of 40K that does it.
billclo said:I find it's better to make everyone use the same dice. Removes the possibility that the dice are loaded. Certainly dice can be worn such that certain numbers come up more often...but if the same die rolls apply to all the players it evens out.
Anathema! My dice are color coded by fleet.
I couldn't not bear to see some unwashed Klingon barbarian touching my Federation blue dice. :twisted:
McKinstry said:billclo said:I find it's better to make everyone use the same dice. Removes the possibility that the dice are loaded. Certainly dice can be worn such that certain numbers come up more often...but if the same die rolls apply to all the players it evens out.
Anathema! My dice are color coded by fleet.
I couldn't not bear to see some unwashed Klingon barbarian touching my Federation blue dice. :twisted:
As understandable as that is problem is it can lead to serious doubt. Especially if dice rolls are seemingly better.
If the lucky guy on fleets? thread is using his own dices systematically and doesn't let others to use them on similar basis as you then that would start to smell a lot like loaded dices...
(though I still think it's case of selective memory there)
Trenchbucket
Mongoose
tneva82 said:McKinstry said:billclo said:I find it's better to make everyone use the same dice. Removes the possibility that the dice are loaded. Certainly dice can be worn such that certain numbers come up more often...but if the same die rolls apply to all the players it evens out.
Anathema! My dice are color coded by fleet.
I couldn't not bear to see some unwashed Klingon barbarian touching my Federation blue dice. :twisted:
As understandable as that is problem is it can lead to serious doubt. Especially if dice rolls are seemingly better.
If the lucky guy on fleets? thread is using his own dices systematically and doesn't let others to use them on similar basis as you then that would start to smell a lot like loaded dices...
(though I still think it's case of selective memory there)
Ah i have loaded dice, though to even it out i have loaded dice though it keeps rolling under what i need to hit,damage,save :shock:
my other loaded dice roll 6 on average 1 every six rolls, just to be sneeky like.
"Idiots abroad? lets just deal with the domestic ones first"
I don't really care what dice I use - although some rpging friends are somewhat obsessed about the whole thing - on occassion I have found it easier to just roll for saves using opponents dice that hit - if they are happy to do so..........
Paul has a rep for good dice - although when you actually look back they usually even out - you just remember the odd outrageous beam roll.............vividily
Paul has a rep for good dice - although when you actually look back they usually even out - you just remember the odd outrageous beam roll.............vividily
Instead of giving players a score out of a max # of points for sportsmanship, the general tournament format in my area has you pick your favorite opponent out of everyone you played. So nobody gets penalized or torpedoed by cheesy gamers, and whoever is chosen as their favorite by the most people wins best sport.
Another system that has been tried out is listing in order from 1 to n who your favorite opponents were, and then points are assigned based on that, with set values for the person listed as #1, #2, etc.
These systems are, in my opinion, a good compromise between no sportsmanship, and allowing players free reign to give a sportsman score to their opponent.
Another system that has been tried out is listing in order from 1 to n who your favorite opponents were, and then points are assigned based on that, with set values for the person listed as #1, #2, etc.
These systems are, in my opinion, a good compromise between no sportsmanship, and allowing players free reign to give a sportsman score to their opponent.
tneva82 said:McKinstry said:billclo said:I find it's better to make everyone use the same dice. Removes the possibility that the dice are loaded. Certainly dice can be worn such that certain numbers come up more often...but if the same die rolls apply to all the players it evens out.
Anathema! My dice are color coded by fleet.
I couldn't not bear to see some unwashed Klingon barbarian touching my Federation blue dice. :twisted:
As understandable as that is problem is it can lead to serious doubt. Especially if dice rolls are seemingly better.
If the lucky guy on fleets? thread is using his own dices systematically and doesn't let others to use them on similar basis as you then that would start to smell a lot like loaded dices...
(though I still think it's case of selective memory there)
I have never had a problem with my dice being suspiciously good.
McKinstry said:
Well yes but do you want to risk giving impression of that?
I have had couple "suspicious" cases. Don't know if they used loaded dice and frankly can't be bothered to care but if you don't allow other to use dices if they ask and then have couple conviniently timed good dice rolls...
tneva82 said:
Provided they are proper Federation types, I'm fine with sharing my dice even unto the lesser players such as Gorn, Kzinti and Romulan types but unwashed Klingon fingers, never.
Equally, I refuse to use improperly color coded dice. If someone hands me a good medium to dark blue or white dice, fine. I cannot in good color coordinated fashion throw the abomination of a red, black or green die to determine Federation firing.
If you genuinely believe the other player is using loaded dice, a word with the organiser might be in order. Otherwise we're back to the original post in this thread, specifically:
There ought to be a big poster in the tournament location which says something like this:
"We don't care if you cheat. It's a game. If you're such a sad person that you have to win by cheating, we don't want to add to your lifestyle problems."
If your ship has stealth, one thing you can do is roll your stealth saves using the same dice the other player used to score the hits. Not only does this mean that if his dice are loaded then he won't hit a thing, it also actually saves time - rather than count the hits and then count the same number of your own dice, just roll the attack dice which hit and keep the ones which got past stealth. Make sure to keep the ones which rolled 6 on their attacks separate in case they're the ones which get through. (If they rolled 6 due to being loaded, they'll probably do it again. :twistedClanger said:
There ought to be a big poster in the tournament location which says something like this:
"We don't care if you cheat. It's a game. If you're such a sad person that you have to win by cheating, we don't want to add to your lifestyle problems."
my son and I have been collecting a large pool of colored dice. We are going to assign a color to each weapon system and supply them for everyone playing at our home to use. This will do two things one speed up the rolls cause we can roll all weapon systems at once at sort it out b y their color, and two if both opponents are using the same dice then its just youre own shitty luck if you keep rollings ones.
Reality wise, I've been gaming since 1975 and I've never suspected nor seen a hint of loaded dice. I play 99.9% of my games with friends and for the life of me cannot remember a week later if I won or lost, just whether it was fun.
We're playing with toy spaceships - if it isn't fun for the sake of having fun and winning is so important someone feels the need to cheat, more power to them. Odds are great that anyone with that big a personality disorder probably isn't anyone that you want to play with on a regular basis anyway and if winning a toy spaceship tournament is that important, good on them. It probably keeps them from molesting squirrels while train spotting.
We're playing with toy spaceships - if it isn't fun for the sake of having fun and winning is so important someone feels the need to cheat, more power to them. Odds are great that anyone with that big a personality disorder probably isn't anyone that you want to play with on a regular basis anyway and if winning a toy spaceship tournament is that important, good on them. It probably keeps them from molesting squirrels while train spotting.
Trenchbucket
Mongoose
McKinstry said:
Totally agree with that, its the spirit of the game that is important. people who have to win that bad should just stay home cause whats the point of bragging if you have no friends to brag too!
"Fairplay creates friendships that last longer than starships"
i didnt think that was allowed, that would be like saying "ok i have two ships in front of me and im going to fire at ship 1 one weapon at a time until it dies then ill fire whats lefts at ship two." my understanding of the rules was all attacks must be declared up front for this very reason.
You declare attacks but you can decide the order in which they are resolved in order to overload defences.
So for instance at the tournament I sometimes tried to knock down shields with phasers so that the subsequent Drones and Photons hit unprotected hull. Also sometimes things will have unintended consequences - for instance one weapon may damage critical systems that make it easier for subsequent weapons to cause damage. Eg first Plasma Torp causes guns to haev -1 to hit, making subsequent torps more resistant to defensive phaser fire.
You still have to declare what you are firing at where and can (as I did on Saturday) over committ firepower making the enemy ship blow up and cripple your own cruiser..........
So for instance at the tournament I sometimes tried to knock down shields with phasers so that the subsequent Drones and Photons hit unprotected hull. Also sometimes things will have unintended consequences - for instance one weapon may damage critical systems that make it easier for subsequent weapons to cause damage. Eg first Plasma Torp causes guns to haev -1 to hit, making subsequent torps more resistant to defensive phaser fire.
You still have to declare what you are firing at where and can (as I did on Saturday) over committ firepower making the enemy ship blow up and cripple your own cruiser..........
Locally we only ever had Sportsmanship for GW events, so maybe my perspective is biased. We ended up reducing the Sportsmanship factor to just one question: Was your opponent fun to play with?
The thing with bad behavior at tournaments is that the tournament organizer or store employees need to take care of it quickly, because unruly players can make a player base nervous and future event attendance drop. That has been my experience as a store owner, anyway. Under no circumstances should the players in an event be responsible for judging another person's sportsmanship or army composition, because it is far too easy to abuse.
I am fortunate that we have had few problems in that area. When my brothers and I took over the local game store, the vast majority of the unruly players realized that the new owners were not going to put up with their BS. They're now a problem for somebody else.
The thing with bad behavior at tournaments is that the tournament organizer or store employees need to take care of it quickly, because unruly players can make a player base nervous and future event attendance drop. That has been my experience as a store owner, anyway. Under no circumstances should the players in an event be responsible for judging another person's sportsmanship or army composition, because it is far too easy to abuse.
I am fortunate that we have had few problems in that area. When my brothers and I took over the local game store, the vast majority of the unruly players realized that the new owners were not going to put up with their BS. They're now a problem for somebody else.
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