"Future history" is now just history.

B

BuShips

Cosmic Mongoose
First Ospreys land in Iraq...

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/world_us/20071009_First_Ospreys_land_in_Iraq__one_arrives_after_2_setbacks.html


Photos here:
http://www.news.com/Photos-V-22-Osprey-deploys-to-Iraq/2300-11397_3-6212364.html?part=dht

Here is its only armament (sigh)- Whare's a chain gun? (I guess they're called Apaches :P) :roll:

http://www.news.com/2300-11397_3-6212364-7.html?tag=ne.gall.pg
 
BuShips said:
Here is its only armament (sigh)- Whare's a chain gun? (I guess they're called Apaches :P) :roll:
Click to expand...
What weapons were in the Sea Knight's chin turret?

Some Ospreys are equipped with a few more internal armaments called Marines.
 
darklord4 said:
Some Ospreys are equipped with a few more internal armaments called Marines.
Click to expand...

Not to come off as confrontational, but 'so what'? I realise that you meant to be humorous. Seriously though, for the entire time that those Marines are inside, before disembarking, they can only serve as bullet stops for the critical aircraft systems, I suppose. This is the same mistake that the first model F-4s had when deployed- "You guys don't need guns." It's a stupid idea to leave off a forward-arc trainable weapon for suppression. Well, they learned with the F-4 Phantom and just maybe they'll learn again. After losing people first, sadly. I want what DM is mentioning below. With a minigun facing forward and something like that 7.62 M-240 facing aft, they'd land spitting lead. A nose-mounted mini-gun is called for, going into a hot LZ. Nothing less. Computers can keep the firing paths clear of the props. Besides, in landing mode they'd be above the wings, offering almost as clean a firing arc as an Apache gun mount.

DM said:
Here is its only armament (sigh)- Where's a chain gun? (I guess they're called Apaches )
Click to expand...

BAE SYSTEMS have a proposal for a belly mounted weapons station for the Osprey that can carry a variety of weapons, including the 7.62mm mini-gun

http://www.air-attack.com/news/news...aunches-New-V-22-Defensive-Weapon-System.html
Click to expand...

That's what I'm talking about. I hope the DoD chooses wisely.
 
The mission of the Osprey is as a mover, not a shaker. I think what you really want is Ospreys inserting with suppressing fire given by 1 or more super cobras or maybe an F-35 nearby to drop a bomb if needed. Combined arms and all that...

Whether you find it funny or no, the Osprey is meant to deliver Marines into combat and leave to go get more, not stand on station for fire support or clear an LZ...there are other things designed to do that mission a lot better.
 
Well, the practice so far shows, that you never have enough firepower to suppress enemies in the LZ. In Nam crews of transport Hueys that went into combat equipped their birds with as much firepower as they could. At some point (incredibly fast, considering the usual practices in the armed forces) the Army (and USMC) decided to make the practice official and standardize - so newer transport birds (most Hues, later the Blackhawks and also the bigger helis) were armed (or ready to be armed) from the start.
Combined arms theory is beautiful, but it is not always possible to implement it on the tactical level - sometimes the resources are simply not available (shot down, in repairs or otherwise occupied) and the mission HAS to be carried out... The crews realize that, so what you're going to see in near future is a lot of "homegrown" weapon upgrades for the Ospreys - they won't be integrated as well as something that could be done in the factory, they will increase the maintenance load and make life more difficult for everybody - but they will be there... Just like the homegrown armor kits for HMMWVs few years ago...
 
If this is how long it takes the US to bring in a simple prop plane our good old harrier is safe from replacement by the far inferior JSF for some time yet!

YAY!
 
I agree a craft like this needs some forward firepower to suppress drop zones while it lands its troops. Even transports birds like the Chinook have some weapons for suppression and fire support, even though that's not their role. Like the man said, gunship escorts or fixed-wing air support isn't always available, and I'd feel a lot better jumping out of that thing with a minigun keeping the bad guys' heads down...
 
The other proposed armament is a chin gun (similar to the Apache) which requires a refit of the nose structure, plus routing for the ammo feed to ammo hoppers behind the cockpit.
 
Pietia's comments hit my feelings about this spot-on. I almost mentioned (actually I erased it to shorten my earlier comment) how they added side guns to Heuys for added suppression while landing. Also, remember that this is important while reboarding in a hot area as well. It needs a chin gun to assist in its mission. That mission is of course one of transport, and as soon as it either disembarks or collects its troops, it should immediately "bug out".

My prediction is that we'll be seeing a forward "stinger" on these over time, but why oh why wasn't it built into the design? There is plenty of history in troop transport to justify this. :roll:

It will be interesting to see what Mongoose does if they release this model. They have some research to do here and decisions to make on it. :D
 
Armchair_Marine said:
BuShips said:
It will be interesting to see what Mongoose does if they release this model. They have some research to do here and decisions to make on it. :D
Click to expand...

Optional and removable weapons?
Click to expand...

That would be smart from a marketing perspective. It gives a reason to own multiple models, with varying point costs within the game.
 
Here is a youtube vid, for those that have not seen it-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaAb0Z1CwbA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edefensetech%2Eorg%2Farchives%2F003431%2Ehtml

Also, a link to the story of this-

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003431.html

I think that this model will be just as desirable to have as a dropship model for SST. After all, it's a dropship for the US Marines! :D
 
BTW, I see that Mongoose has a prototype for the snipers minitures; ref. S&P 49. And while I'm thinking about it, which do you think would be a better model - the Marine Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle, Stryker, or LAV? My preference is either the Stryker or LAV. The MEFV is just an updated version of the AMTRAK - with hydroplane decks. Don't make much sense unless you're doing a beach assault scenario.
 
If you think about the EFV as AMTRAK with hydrofoils, then you should see Stryker and LAV as trucks with bolted on armor.
BTW - USMC uses AA7Vs for more than just beach assaults, Strykers are not in USMC inventory (and probably won't be in it at all), and LAVs are used just by some USMC formations, as they are not considered capable enough to carry out all tasks assigned to USMC...
As for the Chinook or Sea Stallion cards - DIY ;-)
 
I found a quote re: the forward gun...
For copyright reasons, I won't post it here though. Look for comments by AirCommandoSarge. It's at the bottom of his second post.

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/672198221/m/7220059941001/p/4

I'm finding confusion regarding sqdn. Vmm-263's nickname though, even by its own members :!:. At the link above, a former member was angered by the nickname of "Thunder Chickens" and got the Marine website and Wiki recently changed back to the "Thunder Eagles". While the patch and original name was indeed the Thunder Eagles, a hard translation of Eagle during Vietnam service was altered to the word for chicken. It stuck (this obviously did not "stick" on the angry former member). Other members seem to have a sense of pride in the change, which is decades old now. It's interesting when different viewpoints are held even by first-person sources. That's why history books get it wrong sometimes, I'd guess, when they interview "those that were there" on battles in history. :roll:



More vids-
http://ivpressonline.com/art/osprey.swf
 
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