FTL Communications?

[Quint]

As my Traveller game has moved away from canon over the years (*cough* ...decades...) I introduced this as a TL17ish method of FTL communication - one that the Imperium (and others) has as essentially prototype or early Tech. The limitations being that (for "reasons") it requires a massive amount of energy to run (planetary core tap levels), is stupidly expensive, and works essentially like Morse Code/Telegraphy instead of a radio waves. Plus the earlier mentioned limit that you maker both receivers at the same time and then have to ship one to "wherever" - so it's limited to high tech planets and has relatively limited transmission capabilities. Good for very important communications, but there's still plenty of lag in the system (especially when you get to the frontier).

D.

 

[Terry Mixon]

FTL communication is possible in Charted Space, just at much higher tech levels than anyone possesses. In Secrets of the Ancients, there is this entry:

"This ship is vastly more advanced than other Droyne ships the Precursors have travelled on. Among other innovations, it has a prototype ansible – a faster-than-light communication system. This ansible works on a higher level of jumpspace than that accessible using conventional jump drives, allowing messages to be transmitted over tens of parsecs instantaneously."

The stated tech levels at that time are: Ancients Tech Level: 19–21 at the core; 18–19 at the fringe systems. As this is a prototype, it likely rolls into general use at TL22 or TL23.

There is a later entry:

Ancients Tech Level: 26+ at the core; 23–24 at the fringe systems.

"At this level of technology, teleportation portals are ubiquitous. Whole planetary systems can be crossed with a single footstep. While some ships still have their own jump drives, it is more common to use interstellar gates to travel from system-to-system. The ansible network links the entire Ancients civilisation together."

This seems to narrow it down further to TL23 as it is in general use and TL23 is the minimum at the fringes.

Of course, some may say these are rules introduced in a supplement, but there you are.

 

[rinku]

The portal tech itself is sufficient to provide communications like this. If you can create a portal large enough to walk or fly through, you should be able to create a micro portal and transmit (or talk) through it.

Wormholes might actually be a better device to base it on than quantum entanglement, especially if that's YTU's replacement for Jump drive.

Bujold's Vorkosigan setting works like this, with natural wormholes. Stations either side of the wormhole send through transmissions through it, then by radio to other stations elsewhere in the system at another wormhole location. Faster than Traveller, but slower than Ansible - message delivery tends to be days up to weeks, depending on how much real space the message needs to travel, and if a leg needs a ship to traverse because there isn't a station or if it's out of action.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The change of one of the linked pair changing spin if the other is measured. Like I said, I know very little about this and could be completely wrong.

"Realistically" the spins are correlated when the particles are entangled, they have to be or they are not entangled. It's just we don't know what they are until we observe or measure them. Or... the particles are now entangled in such a way that when a particle is measured the other particle now has knowable properties, but that doesn't help you in any way at all as it is non-local so they have to have a way to "communicate" - wormholes perhaps?

Which means we need to learn a lot more about the ontology of quantum processes. Bell's theorem "proves" that you can not do an experiment to "prove" locality and realness, put another way at least one of the following must be false:
- particles have pre-existing properties (realness)
- no influence travels faster than light (locality)
Bell showed that if both are true, certain statistical limits (Bell inequalities) must hold. Quantum mechanics predict, and Nobel prize winning experiments confirm, that these limits are violated.

Which indicate non-locality is a thing...

but then it gets interesting, realness can still be a thing or not, many are investigating realness and claiming it doesn't exits, but there is a major flaw in that, if particles are not real then the universe isn't real...

If we deny that particles have real properties before measurement then we are pushed to accept a view of the universe where reality is not absolute but is instead contextual, it is dependent on interactions or observers. This is a different kind of ‘realness’ than classical physics assumed.

 

[Sigtrygg]

FTL communication is possible in Charted Space, just at much higher tech levels than anyone possesses. In Secrets of the Ancients, there is this entry:

"This ship is vastly more advanced than other Droyne ships the Precursors have travelled on. Among other innovations, it has a prototype ansible – a faster-than-light communication system. This ansible works on a higher level of jumpspace than that accessible using conventional jump drives, allowing messages to be transmitted over tens of parsecs instantaneously."

The stated tech levels at that time are: Ancients Tech Level: 19–21 at the core; 18–19 at the fringe systems. As this is a prototype, it likely rolls into general use at TL22 or TL23.

There is a later entry:

Ancients Tech Level: 26+ at the core; 23–24 at the fringe systems.

"At this level of technology, teleportation portals are ubiquitous. Whole planetary systems can be crossed with a single footstep. While some ships still have their own jump drives, it is more common to use interstellar gates to travel from system-to-system. The ansible network links the entire Ancients civilisation together."

This seems to narrow it down further to TL23 as it is in general use and TL23 is the minimum at the fringes.

Of course, some may say these are rules introduced in a supplement, but there you are.

How this ever got past the secret squirrel squad is a mystery to me. Marc has stated many many times that the Third Imperium setting does not have ansible like FTL comms. Now that Mongoose owns the OTU this is a moot point, the Mongoose Third Imperium has ansible tech at high enough TLs.

 

[MasterGwydion]

How this ever got past the secret squirrel squad is a mystery to me. Marc has stated many many times that the Third Imperium setting does not have ansible like FTL comms. Now that Mongoose owns the OTU this is a moot point, the Mongoose Third Imperium has ansible tech at high enough TLs.

The Third Imperium doesn't have ansible-like tech, but the physics of Charted Space allow for it at TLs that no scientists are really considering in Charted Space. So, it is possible, but not an issue for game mechanics or world stability.

 

[Sigtrygg]

No, he banned it regardless of era, even for the Ancients. The secret squirrel squad should know this, so either, Marc changed his mind or it was never spotted.

Like I say, it doesn't matter now, the setting is whatever you decide Naalir makes it...

 

[MasterGwydion]

No, he banned it regardless of era, even for the Ancients. The secret squirrel squad should know this, so either, Marc changed his mind or it was never spotted.

Like I say, it doesn't matter now, the setting is whatever you decide Naalir makes it...

Marc's viewpoint on this seems odd, as every law a physics is manipulatable with the right knowledge or equipment. So, at a high enough TL, anything and everything should be possible.

 

[Quint]

No, he banned it regardless of era, even for the Ancients. The secret squirrel squad should know this, so either, Marc changed his mind or it was never spotted.

Like I say, it doesn't matter now, the setting is whatever you decide Naalir makes it...

At one point he did, but he also green-lit the Ancient's the MgT SoA (and then the subsequent Ancient's books) so clearly he changed his mind. Honestly, it's kind of inherent in the T5 Tech Charts (Limited Matter Transport is listed at TL19 under Comms, so technically available at TL16) but once you hit TL22+ it's seemingly baked in at some point...

D.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Nowhere in the T5 tech charts is FTL comms mentioned.

Once you get to TL27/28 I suppose you can manipulate reality to now allow it...

 

[Terry Mixon]

More quantum entanglement information about a recent breakthrough. I don't think it changes the discussion, but I can't say I really understand this either.

Quantum equivalent of thermodynamics' second law discovered for entanglement manipulation​

MSN

 

[MasterGwydion]

More quantum entanglement information about a recent breakthrough. I don't think it changes the discussion, but I can't say I really understand this either.

Quantum equivalent of thermodynamics' second law discovered for entanglement manipulation​

MSN

Cool read. Not applicable and now my brain hurts, but cool read! Thanks!

 

[rinku]

If you want to go that route. Use the Hop Drive TL progression for your jumpspace radio's range. As long as it still takes a week for the message to get there, then it wouldn't break the setting.

TL-17 1 parsec
TL-18 2 parsecs
TL-19 3 parsecs
etc.

Good idea. Starts out as a local convenience, but over time (and at ultratech levels) starts to affect subsector, then sector communications.

 

[rinku]

In regards to Marc's "No Ansible" line... portals aren't truly that, even if the practical effect is almost the same. It is however point to point communication, like a letter or phone call. I get the feeling what Marc ruled out is FTL Radio, where you can broadcast.
OTOH he is on record as accepting later canon he happens not to agree with. So he's a flexible prophet, and not that good a justification for choosing one canon or another.

(Incidentally, when I aired the thought a few weeks ago that all the canon can be seen as historical documents and thus may contain the sorts of biases and errors that historical documents always do, that was also a viewpoint I've heard Marc voice. His interviews are always worth listening to.)

 

[MasterGwydion]

In regards to Marc's "No Ansible" line... portals aren't truly that, even if the practical effect is almost the same. It is however point to point communication, like a letter or phone call. I get the feeling what Marc ruled out is FTL Radio, where you can broadcast.
OTOH he is on record as accepting later canon he happens not to agree with. So he's a flexible prophet, and not that good a justification for choosing one canon or another.

(Incidentally, when I aired the thought a few weeks ago that all the canon can be seen as historical documents and thus may contain the sorts of biases and errors that historical documents always do, that was also a viewpoint I've heard Marc voice. His interviews are always worth listening to.)

The problem with viewing Canon as historical documents, is that you cannot then design a system that describes Canon. The rules and Canon will forever be at odds.

 

[rinku]

That's essentially a you problem, MG.

 

[MasterGwydion]

That's essentially a you problem, MG.

It is an everyone problem. How does a future Traveller writer know if "said Canon event" actually occurred when they write their adventure? How does a future Traveller writer know that "said bit of tech that he read about in canon" doesn't actually exist and having it exist breaks the setting or violates the rules as written.

Anymore stupid snark that you'd care to share when I make a valid point about game rules needing to agree with Canon and vice-versa?

 

[agentwigggles]

Then how long did it take to transmit the data across 6 feet in this experiment? Lightspeed?

The entangled pair, is instantaneous. It cant transmit information. The action of half the pair, has no bearing on the other half of the bearing. You can even use it being disetanged as series of ones and zeros, because you cant check if its entangled with disentangling them.

 

[rinku]

How does any writer know if ANY event actually ocurred? It's a real world problem, so it should not be surprising if a game that models life has to deal with it sometimes.

Largely it's a matter of confidence in the sources.

As a Referee you already make constant decisions about what parts of the literature you're choosing to use. Stuff that applied in PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF TRAVELLER in particular does not HAVE to apply in Mongoose 2nd edition. And that includes Classic, even though CT is closest to MGT. But likewise, it CAN apply if that is your choice.

Background Information is usually subjective, and almost all of it in Traveller, such as the Library Data entries and TAS News articles is even presented as actual documents, not omniscient truth.

Now and then you may have an author speaking directly to the Referee, as with "Referee's Information" sections. But those are still only strong suggestions for you to use or discard as you judge fit.

The canon of works with multiple authors is always tricky. But the actual stories we are telling as RPG groups are in effect fan fiction.

And I would add that the simplest way to go is just to pick one edition and stick with it. If you want to use CT or T5 or GURPS resources, excellent. But there's no point in angsting about different editions of the game saying different things. Use what you need.

 

[ProfGrizzlyJon]

FTL communication is possible in Charted Space, just at much higher tech levels than anyone possesses. In Secrets of the Ancients, there is this entry:

"This ship is vastly more advanced than other Droyne ships the Precursors have travelled on. Among other innovations, it has a prototype ansible – a faster-than-light communication system. This ansible works on a higher level of jumpspace than that accessible using conventional jump drives, allowing messages to be transmitted over tens of parsecs instantaneously."

The stated tech levels at that time are: Ancients Tech Level: 19–21 at the core; 18–19 at the fringe systems. As this is a prototype, it likely rolls into general use at TL22 or TL23.

There is a later entry:

Ancients Tech Level: 26+ at the core; 23–24 at the fringe systems.

"At this level of technology, teleportation portals are ubiquitous. Whole planetary systems can be crossed with a single footstep. While some ships still have their own jump drives, it is more common to use interstellar gates to travel from system-to-system. The ansible network links the entire Ancients civilisation together."

This seems to narrow it down further to TL23 as it is in general use and TL23 is the minimum at the fringes.

Of course, some may say these are rules introduced in a supplement, but there you are.

This is the source that drove me towards my addition:

The Jumpspace Threadcaster is an exotic communication system designed to propagate messages between vessels in jumpspace by transmitting focused pulses of mesons and neutrinos, tuned to resonate along the curvature of a shared jump envelope. These exotic particles are capable of penetrating matter—including stars, planets, and jump medium—allowing signal propagation where conventional communications fail.

This system does not allow real-time or faster-than-light communication. Instead, signals travel at jump velocity, approximately one parsec per 168 hours at Jump-1. For communication to occur, both ships must be actively in jump, using the same jump envelope classification (e.g., Jump-2 to Jump-2, Hop-1 to Hop-1) and traveling along the same courseline—a vector from common origin to destination (or just a shared origin/destination). Messages are received only after a delay equal to the time difference between each ship’s jump entry. For instance, two ships entering jump simultaneously may exchange messages with minimal lag (around one hour), while ships entering 24 hours apart must wait 24 hours to receive replies.

Threadcasters function exclusively within jumpspace. No signal can be sent to or received from realspace, and no detection is possible from outside the jump medium. Data capacity is limited to compressed telemetry, text, encrypted command packets, and low-fidelity sensor streams.

Threadcasters are not without risk. The exotic particle emissions they release—though imperceptible to crew—appear to resonate within the jumpspace medium in ways not fully understood. Ships have reported anomalous sensor feedback, ghost echoes, and proximity disturbances upon realspace emergence after extended Threadcaster use.

Many scouts and xeno-psionicists believe these signals attract the attention of native or emergent entities within the jump dimension. These so-called driftlife—intangible, transdimensional organisms—may respond to Threadcaster use in a manner akin to how whales or cephalopods react to sonar: with disorientation, attraction, aggression, or shadowing behavior. Referees may treat Threadcaster activation in unstable jump regions as a trigger for psionic stress, morale checks, or driftlife encounter rolls.

Summary of Operation

• Jump-Space Only: Both sender and receiver must be in jump
• Courseline-Dependent: Works only on aligned trajectories between same origin and destination, or shared endpoint(s)
• Jump-Class Matched: Only functions between identical jumpspace layers (e.g., Jump-3
  
  Jump-3)
• Jump-Speed Latency: Signal delay equals time difference between jump entries
• Non-Interceptable: Impossible to detect or jam; does not radiate in realspace
• Bandwidth: Text, telemetry, and compressed data only
• Hazard: May attract or agitate jump-native entities

OTU Compliance Summary (yes, this part was crafted with AI- but only to make sure that the concept made sense and could pass the Dunning-Kreuger Test)

• Why the Threadcaster Is Allowed
  
  
  Not FTL Communication: The Threadcaster does not transmit faster than the speed of jump; signals travel at the same velocity as the vessel—168 hours per parsec—so no instantaneous or “simultaneous” communication occurs.
  
  
  No Realspace Transmission:It does not originate from or emerge into realspace. Communication only occurs within jumpspace, and both vessels must be actively in jump for it to function.→
  
  
  Satisfies OTU canon: “A ship in Jump Space is totally isolated from Real Space.”
  
  
  No Detection or Scanning Effect: The Threadcaster does not allow a ship to detect others in jump or become detectable itself. The signal is non-locational and cannot be used to “find” another vessel.
  
  
  Avoids violating “Undetectable in Jump Space” rules.
  
  
  Message Delay Mirrors Jump Physics: Messages are received only after a delay equal to the time offset between ships’ jump entries.→ This maintains causal consistency and avoids time paradoxes.
  
  
  No Communication Across Envelopes: It only functions between ships using the same jump class (Jump-1
  
  Jump-1, not Jump-2
  
  Hop-1), reinforcing technical limitations.
  
  
  Keeps the system internally consistent with jump mechanics.
  
  
  Limited Bandwidth, No Conversation:Supports compressed telemetry and short data bursts only. There’s no real-time exchange or high-bandwidth use (e.g., live voice, visuals).
  
  
  Matches the OTU's expectations for what "communication" should never be.
  
  
  Driftlife Interaction is Emergent, Not Intentional: The sonar-like effect on jumpspace fauna is incidental and narrative-driven, not part of the device’s primary function.
  
  
  Adds flavor without granting forbidden capabilities.
  
  
  Advanced, but Not Magical: Uses mesons and neutrinos—technically exotic, but still grounded in speculative science.
  
  
  Avoids “magic tech” or psionics as the core explanation.