JaySimpson
Mongoose
Hi. I have a few questions for "Mongoose Matt" pertaining to medical treatment in Traveller (MgT 2e 2022 Update). I am new to the forum - hopefully this is a good spot to find Mongoose Matt.
First, my interpretation of the rules is that “Medical Treatment” is an umbrella term that encompasses “First Aid”, “Surgery”, and “Medical Care”. First Aid, Surgery, and Medical Care are distinct from one another. Found on pp. 82-83 (of the Core Rulebook) are the following paragraphs: (my emphasis)
MEDICAL TREATMENT
First Aid: Applying first aid restores a number of characteristic points equal to the Effect of a Medic check (EDU), for a minimum of one point. Points restored by first aid are divided as desired among all damaged physical characteristics. First aid requires at least basic medical equipment (such as a medikit), must be initiated within one minute of the injury and can only be successfully applied once.
Surgery: A Traveller who still has three damaged characteristics after first aid has been applied requires surgery. Surgery restores characteristic points just like first aid, but if the check is failed the patient loses more characteristic points equal to 3+ the Effect of the Medic check (EDU). Surgery requires a hospital or sickbay. Once the characteristic is back to its maximum level the patient can benefit from medical care.
Medical Care: A Traveller who has only one or two damaged characteristics after first aid has been applied, or who has had one of their three physical characteristics restored to normal through surgery can benefit from medical care. Medical care restores 3+ the Traveller’s END DM + the doctor’s Medic skill in characteristic points per day, divided evenly among all damaged characteristics. Medical care requires a hospital or sickbay and for the Traveller to undergo full bed rest.
Augmentation and Medical Care: Cybernetic or genetic augments can interfere with medical treatment. All medical care or surgery Medic checks treating a Traveller suffer a negative DM equal to the difference in Tech Level between the medical facility and the highest relevant implant. For example, a Traveller with TL 13 Enhanced Vision being treated in a TL 10 hospital would inflict DM-3 to the surgeon’s Medic checks.
Q.1 Does a Medic check to apply First Aid with a negative Effect inflict additional damage, or does it restore the minimum of 1 characteristic point?
Q.2 Do augments inflict a similar negative DM to First Aid checks as they do to Surgery and Medical Care?
My answer to Q. 1 would be that a First Aid check with a negative effect restores 1 characteristic point. My answer to Q.2 would be that augments do not affect the application of first aid.
My reasoning is as follows:
- First Aid is distinct from Surgery and Medical Care. The definition of First Aid speaks only of restoring points. If the rules intended a negative Effect First Aid check also to inflict additional damage, they would have said so, as they do for the definition of Surgery.
- First Aid specifically states there is a minimum result of 1 point restored. This overrides the normal application of the Effect rules (Effect Results table, p. 61, which, in my view, would still require an Effect of -6 or less before additional damage would be inflicted, but for the stated minimum result).
- The header for the paragraph re augments is “Augmentation and Medical Care” (not “Treatment”). The paragraph specifically refers only to “medical care” and “surgery” Medic checks as being affected by augments; “first aid” is not included.
- The negative DM for augments is based on the difference between the “medical facility” and the highest relevant implant. First aid can be (and usually is) applied outside a medical facility. The game mechanic to implement the modifier explicitly excludes the conditions under which first aid is normally performed.
One counterargument is that the paragraph on augments does say “… can interfere with medical treatment”. In my view, this word has been used to refer to both surgery and medical care only. A more accurate statement would have been “… can interfere with some medical treatment”. One could argue this applies to “all” medical treatment, but there is nothing in the remainder of the paragraph to support that.
Another counterargument may be that the statement "First aid ... can only be successfully applied once" implies that it can be unsuccessfully applied (e.g. to a negative Effect). In my view, this is poor wording of the rules. If the minimum effect is 1 point restored, then every first aid attempt will be successful, just to a greater or lesser degree. A statement such as "First aid ... can only be applied once per patient" or "First Aid ... can only be applied once per patient per instance of injury" would have been less confusing.
Another argument may be that the DM applies to medical care, even though there is no dice roll/check for medical care. Therefore it must apply to first aid anyway. Although the definition of Dice Modifier (DM) on p.6 specifically says “to be applied to a dice roll”, in this case I think it is clear the rules intend the modifier as a -3 penalty to be added to the formula for medical care. Linking this in any way to first aid is a large leap in logic.
Finally, Q. 3 is “Do you need a medikit equal in TL to the TL of a patient’s implant in order to apply first aid without a penalty due to the implant?”
My answer is “no”. Augments do not affect first aid. Therefore augments are immaterial with respect to the type of first aid kit used. Using a TL 5 first aid kit (DM -1) on a patient with a TL 12 augmentation still provides a DM -1 to the first aid Medic check, and using a TL 10 medikit (DM +1) still provides a DM +1 to the check (even though it is a lower TL kit than the patient’s augment).
My ultimate question to you is “am I correct?”
Thanks.
First, my interpretation of the rules is that “Medical Treatment” is an umbrella term that encompasses “First Aid”, “Surgery”, and “Medical Care”. First Aid, Surgery, and Medical Care are distinct from one another. Found on pp. 82-83 (of the Core Rulebook) are the following paragraphs: (my emphasis)
MEDICAL TREATMENT
First Aid: Applying first aid restores a number of characteristic points equal to the Effect of a Medic check (EDU), for a minimum of one point. Points restored by first aid are divided as desired among all damaged physical characteristics. First aid requires at least basic medical equipment (such as a medikit), must be initiated within one minute of the injury and can only be successfully applied once.
Surgery: A Traveller who still has three damaged characteristics after first aid has been applied requires surgery. Surgery restores characteristic points just like first aid, but if the check is failed the patient loses more characteristic points equal to 3+ the Effect of the Medic check (EDU). Surgery requires a hospital or sickbay. Once the characteristic is back to its maximum level the patient can benefit from medical care.
Medical Care: A Traveller who has only one or two damaged characteristics after first aid has been applied, or who has had one of their three physical characteristics restored to normal through surgery can benefit from medical care. Medical care restores 3+ the Traveller’s END DM + the doctor’s Medic skill in characteristic points per day, divided evenly among all damaged characteristics. Medical care requires a hospital or sickbay and for the Traveller to undergo full bed rest.
Augmentation and Medical Care: Cybernetic or genetic augments can interfere with medical treatment. All medical care or surgery Medic checks treating a Traveller suffer a negative DM equal to the difference in Tech Level between the medical facility and the highest relevant implant. For example, a Traveller with TL 13 Enhanced Vision being treated in a TL 10 hospital would inflict DM-3 to the surgeon’s Medic checks.
Q.1 Does a Medic check to apply First Aid with a negative Effect inflict additional damage, or does it restore the minimum of 1 characteristic point?
Q.2 Do augments inflict a similar negative DM to First Aid checks as they do to Surgery and Medical Care?
My answer to Q. 1 would be that a First Aid check with a negative effect restores 1 characteristic point. My answer to Q.2 would be that augments do not affect the application of first aid.
My reasoning is as follows:
- First Aid is distinct from Surgery and Medical Care. The definition of First Aid speaks only of restoring points. If the rules intended a negative Effect First Aid check also to inflict additional damage, they would have said so, as they do for the definition of Surgery.
- First Aid specifically states there is a minimum result of 1 point restored. This overrides the normal application of the Effect rules (Effect Results table, p. 61, which, in my view, would still require an Effect of -6 or less before additional damage would be inflicted, but for the stated minimum result).
- The header for the paragraph re augments is “Augmentation and Medical Care” (not “Treatment”). The paragraph specifically refers only to “medical care” and “surgery” Medic checks as being affected by augments; “first aid” is not included.
- The negative DM for augments is based on the difference between the “medical facility” and the highest relevant implant. First aid can be (and usually is) applied outside a medical facility. The game mechanic to implement the modifier explicitly excludes the conditions under which first aid is normally performed.
One counterargument is that the paragraph on augments does say “… can interfere with medical treatment”. In my view, this word has been used to refer to both surgery and medical care only. A more accurate statement would have been “… can interfere with some medical treatment”. One could argue this applies to “all” medical treatment, but there is nothing in the remainder of the paragraph to support that.
Another counterargument may be that the statement "First aid ... can only be successfully applied once" implies that it can be unsuccessfully applied (e.g. to a negative Effect). In my view, this is poor wording of the rules. If the minimum effect is 1 point restored, then every first aid attempt will be successful, just to a greater or lesser degree. A statement such as "First aid ... can only be applied once per patient" or "First Aid ... can only be applied once per patient per instance of injury" would have been less confusing.
Another argument may be that the DM applies to medical care, even though there is no dice roll/check for medical care. Therefore it must apply to first aid anyway. Although the definition of Dice Modifier (DM) on p.6 specifically says “to be applied to a dice roll”, in this case I think it is clear the rules intend the modifier as a -3 penalty to be added to the formula for medical care. Linking this in any way to first aid is a large leap in logic.
Finally, Q. 3 is “Do you need a medikit equal in TL to the TL of a patient’s implant in order to apply first aid without a penalty due to the implant?”
My answer is “no”. Augments do not affect first aid. Therefore augments are immaterial with respect to the type of first aid kit used. Using a TL 5 first aid kit (DM -1) on a patient with a TL 12 augmentation still provides a DM -1 to the first aid Medic check, and using a TL 10 medikit (DM +1) still provides a DM +1 to the check (even though it is a lower TL kit than the patient’s augment).
My ultimate question to you is “am I correct?”
Thanks.
