Mongoose Alex
Mongoose
You're assuming that all infantry models cost the same to make. They don't.
Fire teams and unit sizes
- Thread starter dyssnowman
- Start date
You're assuming that all infantry models cost the same to make. They don't.
Quark said:
I really understand what you mean. Even if they cost the same to make (I really don't the faintest idea about that), maybe Mongoose will even out the prices between boxes. So let's say that one trooper costs n dollars, so a pack of ten should cost 10 x n dollars, and a pack of eight 8 x n dollars, right? What if all the boxes cost 9 x n dollars?
I know, it's not my business to "defend" Mongoose and I'm not trying to lick anyone's boots but somehow this still sounds pretty fair to customers buying the packs of different armies...
Starting battles:
You can play with one PLA, British or USMC squad on one side, 2 MEA squads on the other. Or any other combination. I don't think I can emphasise how hard PLA squads are, or MEA with extra RPGs.
My first game had a couple of infantry squads and a tank a side, for an almost 800 point battle. It lasted a while, as the rules were being learnt.
At the club recently we played a 1600 point Republic va Seperatist battle with full platoons plus armour support (ie AT-TE, ISP, 4 clone trooper squads, commando squad, obi-wan vs Sith Apprentice, 2 super battle droid squads, 2 battle droid squads, 2 Seperatist commando squads, a crab droid phalanx, a heavy crab droid and a spider tank).
Took an hour and a half. Of the 4 players, only myself and Pete had played SST.
But we had a great time. And the rules were simple to master.
On prices - It probably comes down to the number of poses in the box - everyone seems to have 4 poses in their set. The start up cost is the major element for Mongoose.
You can play with one PLA, British or USMC squad on one side, 2 MEA squads on the other. Or any other combination. I don't think I can emphasise how hard PLA squads are, or MEA with extra RPGs.
My first game had a couple of infantry squads and a tank a side, for an almost 800 point battle. It lasted a while, as the rules were being learnt.
At the club recently we played a 1600 point Republic va Seperatist battle with full platoons plus armour support (ie AT-TE, ISP, 4 clone trooper squads, commando squad, obi-wan vs Sith Apprentice, 2 super battle droid squads, 2 battle droid squads, 2 Seperatist commando squads, a crab droid phalanx, a heavy crab droid and a spider tank).
Took an hour and a half. Of the 4 players, only myself and Pete had played SST.
But we had a great time. And the rules were simple to master.
On prices - It probably comes down to the number of poses in the box - everyone seems to have 4 poses in their set. The start up cost is the major element for Mongoose.
dyssnowman
Mongoose
Huh? You went from talking about PLA and MEA to Seperatists and Clone Troopers. Which game are you trying to post about exactly? :? :lol:
OK, great! So I will probably get away with 2+2 squads at first. It's not such a big investment to make, especially if I can persuade one of my friends to buy the another army 
Thanks for you input guys! I can hardly wait for this game to crawl to Finland but fortunately a guy in my local shop was very enthusiastic about it too and I get a chance to get my hands on it. The next question will be whether to go with USA or EFTF. With EFTF I might have a chance to play Finns (agains Russians) not to mention SAS. On the other hand USA has USMC and their Force Recon (of Generation Kill fame). <sigh> Decisions, decisions
Thanks for you input guys! I can hardly wait for this game to crawl to Finland but fortunately a guy in my local shop was very enthusiastic about it too and I get a chance to get my hands on it. The next question will be whether to go with USA or EFTF. With EFTF I might have a chance to play Finns (agains Russians) not to mention SAS. On the other hand USA has USMC and their Force Recon (of Generation Kill fame). <sigh> Decisions, decisions
I was in the playtest group for BF:Evo, so played a reasonable number of games. The rules are solid, and two basic infantry squads is what I would recommend everyone start their force with. You can then legally add a tank and support elements to take you to 1000 points (BF:Evo has a force structure so you can't choose unrealistic forces). But two squads puts you at 4-500 points depending on faction.
I've also been playing Star Wars:Evolution, which is the Star Wars mod for BF:Evo, as it has been much easier to get people in my club interested in the rules that way. We've been playing Republic and Seperatists as these are the factions that you can easily get miniatures for.
I am playtesting and fine tuning the lists at the moment, and trying to find out where to get some more bits and bobs. These lists may be released unofficially in a not getting sued by Wizards or George Lucas sort of way at some point in the future.
I've also been playing Star Wars:Evolution, which is the Star Wars mod for BF:Evo, as it has been much easier to get people in my club interested in the rules that way. We've been playing Republic and Seperatists as these are the factions that you can easily get miniatures for.
I am playtesting and fine tuning the lists at the moment, and trying to find out where to get some more bits and bobs. These lists may be released unofficially in a not getting sued by Wizards or George Lucas sort of way at some point in the future.
dyssnowman
Mongoose
Ah ha!
That makes a lot more sense; thanks Ben!
I was worried that the late night forum reading would have to come to an end...
That makes a lot more sense; thanks Ben!
I was worried that the late night forum reading would have to come to an end...
Mongoose Alex
Mongoose
And just to make it more appealing, the game will come complete with a foreign rules rulesheet in addition to the English-language one
So far the foreign versions we are aiming to have done are Danish, Finnsh, French, German, Polish, Spanish and Swedish...
So far the foreign versions we are aiming to have done are Danish, Finnsh, French, German, Polish, Spanish and Swedish...
Generally, you have a mold that costs X, this is a metal mold with zero undercut, the default build area for the typical injection mold is roughly 6 inches square and costs, ballpark $3000 US. That gets you four poses.
After a hit is pulled from that mold, they get dropped into separate buckets. One for each part or figure.
If there is any assembly, then the figs go to a chemical or sonic welder. This costs money also.
Then you have paint.
Generally, in a chinese style factory, you have vacuum formed molds from which are cut out the areas that require a particular color. Each color requires a bay, airbrush, worker. The figures go from bay to bay, each bay providing one more color or shade. Each vacuum pulled template can only cover about 180 degrees of the figure (but you can't use all 180 degrees). Generally it takes 3 templates, per color, to fully paint one figure.
Inking and drybrushing counts as a shade.
Then you have any fine detail work that may require a hand application of paint. This is especially true if the detail is such that it was not possible to do a template paint job.
Then you have pad printing (insignia), one color per bay.
Then you have packaging, inspections, and shipping to deal with. Which, hopefully stays more or less similar per item to make packing the shipping container easy.
Every penny of additional cost translates to 5 (minimum) or more cents of final retail cost. Then, the cost of the original mold that started all of this gets divided into the cost of the entire production run. So, the fewer molds needed, the cheaper the figures can be. If the initial run sells out.. then WOOHOOO... the reprints make more money since the molds are paid for. (Congrats to Mongoose if this run sells out!) This translates to more product for us, the fans.
...this assumes the molds didn't come off the Open Market (which it doesn't sound like that's the case here).
BY NO MEANS does it cost the same per figure - even if they are generally human sized.
I have absolute confidence that Mongoose is charging a fair price per box, and that the boxes are grouped/ganged in such a way as to be as easy for them to ship and sell to distribution as they are for us to buy. Same pricing/similar pricing is just bloody smart business - and packaging the figures to GET this kind of similar pricing is logical.
/sigh
I miss Hong Kong and the Canton Toy Fair... many happy memories there.
After a hit is pulled from that mold, they get dropped into separate buckets. One for each part or figure.
If there is any assembly, then the figs go to a chemical or sonic welder. This costs money also.
Then you have paint.
Generally, in a chinese style factory, you have vacuum formed molds from which are cut out the areas that require a particular color. Each color requires a bay, airbrush, worker. The figures go from bay to bay, each bay providing one more color or shade. Each vacuum pulled template can only cover about 180 degrees of the figure (but you can't use all 180 degrees). Generally it takes 3 templates, per color, to fully paint one figure.
Inking and drybrushing counts as a shade.
Then you have any fine detail work that may require a hand application of paint. This is especially true if the detail is such that it was not possible to do a template paint job.
Then you have pad printing (insignia), one color per bay.
Then you have packaging, inspections, and shipping to deal with. Which, hopefully stays more or less similar per item to make packing the shipping container easy.
Every penny of additional cost translates to 5 (minimum) or more cents of final retail cost. Then, the cost of the original mold that started all of this gets divided into the cost of the entire production run. So, the fewer molds needed, the cheaper the figures can be. If the initial run sells out.. then WOOHOOO... the reprints make more money since the molds are paid for. (Congrats to Mongoose if this run sells out!) This translates to more product for us, the fans.
...this assumes the molds didn't come off the Open Market (which it doesn't sound like that's the case here).
BY NO MEANS does it cost the same per figure - even if they are generally human sized.
I have absolute confidence that Mongoose is charging a fair price per box, and that the boxes are grouped/ganged in such a way as to be as easy for them to ship and sell to distribution as they are for us to buy. Same pricing/similar pricing is just bloody smart business - and packaging the figures to GET this kind of similar pricing is logical.
/sigh
I miss Hong Kong and the Canton Toy Fair... many happy memories there.
weasel_fierce
Mongoose
This sounds better and better. Rules in danish, AND, the game is playable and fun with 2 squads a side. I've been looking for a good skirmish / man to man kinda game for a while.
