Ripple wrote:
Official answer would be great...
I found it interesting that Boomer's group just decided to use 2" of the stem as the official base size for Stealth bypass but the stem for everything else. Punches a hole in the consistency argument for JUST GO WITH STEM (tm).
Perhaps by default you could imply us using 2" from the stem as some kind of "official base size" for Stealth bypass (or anything for that matter). First understand, we view that the actual scale is much smaller than what the models actually create and is only representative (as with most Naval style miniatures games). Let's face it, to accurately incorporate space combat we'd all have to start playing in parking lots and using binoculars and laser yardsticks otherwise. Therefore, the stem is a much closer "landmark" from which to make all references and measurements. And its certainly practical and I'll say it again ...CONSISTENT.
Mongoose does supply official sized bases and counters per sae...but that's not the problem...the rules make numerous references to distances, measurements and so on for various features, but does not spell out clearly where or how these points are to be taken FROM. I only know of one exception outside of shooting and movement, on pg 29 that spells ot specifically the Stealth by-pass occurs at base/counter contact. There are others but they are vague or implied, but still basically ambiguous and continue to feed this discussion.
The fighter Stealth bypass rule (pg 29) is one of the few places at all that specifically mentions "base/counter contact" as I said. We use the 2" for Stealth bypass because this still puts you at risk to any Anti-fighter which you would have anyway because all the bases supplied by Mongoose will be less than that anyhow (again, measured from the stem). Ironically, and to stress my point, Anti-fighter on pg 28 is measured as 2" ....but from what? it doesn't say......the base? who's base? - your base or their base? Perhaps a pie-plate? (HERE WE GO AGAIN) ...By using the bloody stem, you illiminate the entire issue of the base altogether. It also "dovetails" nicely with the "4 fighters on the base" for Combat Space Patrol as well as I said in a post above.
I'm presuming some players are interpreting the 2" Anti-fighter rule as being measured from the base. If this is so, that actually means with a Mongoose standard base, that would total a 3" distance from the stem...which doesn't make sense as all other shooting (and movement) is taken from the stem/dot...as a form of shooting why would Antifighter suddenly be an exception? Not to mention this 3" Antifighter "zone" would be so exponetially increased as to be unrealistic for in-close last ditch defense...It'd be like the USS Yorktown of '42 shooting Kates down beyond the horizon. But I digress..This dilemma and others (e.g how many fighters can actually surround a base without stacking etc) is created precisely over the issue of the base.
I guess I'll ask does anyone have a better alternative cause I sure am open to hearing it? Until such time the rules clarify this...we're pretty happy with USE THE STEM. Aside from the fact that this topic is approaching 600 hits, I'll assume it's getting noticed and I thought I offered a pretty good expalnation regarding it a few posts above. We feel that our stem/dot concept does a pretty good job of utilizing the rules as stated, or where often lacking, gleaning the "legislative intent" and spirit of the rules while remaining consistent such that everyone playing knows where things stand (no pun intended). Clearly, other players are confused as well...so "punch" away as you wish but for us the bases are and will remain virtually irrelevant and do a nice job just holding the model up.
Incidently, and from a very practical point.....I spent a completely inappropriate amount of time working on my Adira for example. Airbrushing, epoxying, sanding, detailing, labeling and marking out arcs on the base. She'd bring a tear to Londo's eye. What a gem. But, the base is way too small and she gets as tipsy as a freshman on Prom Night. I got a larger base so she'll stay stable and not tip over and snap fins, bust other nearby hapless ships and generally make a pig-pile of a mess. I'm pretty sure others have done the same. But by using the stem as the "landmark" which functions fine with all the rules, it's no big deal because for the most part we could give a rip about the base.
Lastly, as with any typed communication as oppossed to face-to-face, a lot of meaningful info and understanding gets lost and I merely hoped to offer some consistent clarification that works. So I'm off to try to figure out how to beat those blizzard-like fighters of the ISA Gaim who've been really kicking my purple-people-eaters the last few games...ugh, and those 40" mines...grrrr
Boomer :lol:
). By keeping this in mind it will never matter what size the base is...and this makes sense in that the rules never defines how much of a counter or base need to actually "touch" in order to be in "contact"...even just a corner of a counter will do. Therefore, no matter what size the base is...the maximum fighter counters that can go on a base at minimum, is just the one corner of each counter that can actually touch the stem/dot - which does equal 4.
