Fate Points for XP?

[Supplement Four]

Before you get your loin cloth in a ruffle, let me say that I'm not implementing this in my game. I'm just "thinking out loud", as I like to do.

Let's stick it out on the porch and see if the cat eats it, so to speak.

I'm just "figuring", "thinking", "wondering".

If you want to "wonder" with me, then lay down your two silver pieces along with mine.





My thought is: What if Fate Points were used for experience?

I mean, earning a level is a measure of Fate, is it not? The character earns more hit points, gets extra feats and skills, can use more combat maneuvers. His stats may increase.

Earning levels is a life changing experience.

So...what if we used Fate Points instead of XP?

Earning Fate Points is a rare thing. Players will want to keep them for other things. But...what if another spending option is to buy XP that will increase the level of the character?

At 1st level, the character starts with 3 FP.

Moving the character to 2nd level costs 2 FP.

Moving the character to 3rd level costs 3 FP.

Moving the character to 4th level costs 4 FP, and so on.



So, right when you start a game, the character could be 1st level with 3 FP, or he could spend 2FP, making the character 2nd level with 1 FP.



Thoughts on this?

(Remember, I'm just speculating. I'm trying to endorse discussion on an aspect of the game. I'm not saying, "YOU SHOULD DO THIS".)

We're just talkin' here.

 

[Terrible Tim]

Interesting. How often (and when) would you award a Fate point? More often than you would normally?

TT.

 

[Supplement Four]

Interesting. How often (and when) would you award a Fate point? More often than you would normally?

That's a good question. I thought about that after I made the topic.

This would require some heavy awarding of Fate Points, especially at the higher levels--which would devalue FPs in the game. Characters saving up to reach 10th level would have quite a few Fate Points to fall upon if they ever needed them.

Then again, a character who spent his Fate Points would never level--and there is obvious benefit in leveling.

Plus, there are limits to what a Fate Point can do for you. If you've got 12 Fate Points, and you're trying to reach level 13, you just need one more.

If you then get hit to 0 hit points or below, you can still only spend one Fate Point to be Left For Dead.

And, even with the current offiical system, there's nothing stopping a character from collecting Fate Points to a point where the character has a dozen or so.

So...

That brings the point back to: How often would Fate Points be awarded.

I guess my answer to that is: As often as the GM deems necessary to keep his game at a pace of forward momentum that the group likes.



Also, players will get frustrated if they leave their character at a low level for a long time--because the GM can make the enemies tougher and tougher. So, players will be encouraged to save Fate Points and use them to level the character just so the characters will be powered enough to complete the adventure.

 

[Teriudin]

While I really like the idea of that system, it would probably really discourage the more creative usages of fate points. Basically, anything not "Left for Dead" would probably not get used, except MAYBE terror checks.

I doubt I'd spend a fate point to do the plot nudge if that was a big chunk of my next level.

I'd also probably always level if possible, so very often I'd have zero fate points and that's not a good place to be. Death would occur more often, terrors of the unknown would have to be more judiciously used (Joe PC "I'm one fate point away from leveling, so you guys take care of this ... thing... AHHHHHHH!!! *runs away for 2d6 rounds*) and overall whole fate point mechanic gets thrown under the XP bus.

However, it may be interesting if you offered it the other way. A player could sacrifice XP to get a fate point. That might be worth pondering.

 

[LilithsThrall]

My group plays that way and I am -not- a fan.
The reason is that it encourages you to hold on to your fate chips and really work hard not to spend them.
Since fate points exist to help you be more cinematic with your character, anything which encourages you not to use them encourages you to play your character less cinematic - less likely to take chances - more boring and staid.
In other words, using fate chips for experience points results in a less Conan-esque game.

 

[Vortigern]

My group plays that way and I am -not- a fan.
The reason is that it encourages you to hold on to your fate chips and really work hard not to spend them.
Since fate points exist to help you be more cinematic with your character, anything which encourages you not to use them encourages you to play your character less cinematic - less likely to take chances - more boring and staid.
In other words, using fate chips for experience points results in a less Conan-esque game.

In a nutshell, I agree with Lilith.

I also happen to be a fan of foreshadowing as a fatepoint mechanic. I think it is obviously intended as a more collaborative tool... yet managed with care like everything else could work rather well and bring some player / gm synergy into things as well.

 

[Supplement Four]

However, it may be interesting if you offered it the other way. A player could sacrifice XP to get a fate point. That might be worth pondering.

That's an interesting thought. I think its well worth pondering.

 

[DigitalMage]

Savage Worlds apparently had a similar mechanic pre Explorer's Edition. If you had unused bennies (aka fata points) at the end of the adventure you roll a d6 for each and if it comes up a 6 you got an XP (only 5 XP to get an advance in SW).

By making the gaining of XP not guaranteed it may mean players are more likely to use their fate Points in game (and this be cinematic), however if the players have done so well that they didn't need to use Fate Points they might be rewarded for it.

It is worth noting however that this "bennies for XP" rule was dropped in SW Exploerer's Edition for just the reaon that LilithsThrall mentioned - it was encourgaing players to not spend bennies and thus not be as Fast, Furious and Fun as SW is supposed to be.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

The idea of spending a FP to rise in level sounds wonky. A FP is used to avoid a negative consequence--not to receive something positive like xp-development.

However, the concept of spending (a significant amount) of XP to receive a single FP does not sound all too far-fetched. A person should not be permitted to drop below his current character level through the expenditure of xp for any reason.

1) If I'm half-way up through level four and want a FP, I could spend all the xp I have, resetting me to the beginning of lvl 4, after which I receive 1 FP.

2) If I'm very close to the end of lvl 4/cusp of lvl 5, I could spend as many xp as would set me back to half-way up lvl 4, I too would receive 1 FP.

3) If I'm at beginning 4th lvl, I cannot sink below 4th and thus cannot get a FP.

Just some ideas.

 

[Supplement Four]

By making the gaining of XP not guaranteed it may mean players are more likely to use their fate Points in game (and this be cinematic), however if the players have done so well that they didn't need to use Fate Points they might be rewarded for it.

I like this thought too.

I plan on keeping FP rare in my game. I won't hand them out like candy. So, I'll probably keep the XP system along with the FP system.

But, the idea is interesting.

 

[Supplement Four]

However, the concept of spending (a significant amount) of XP to receive a single FP does not sound all too far-fetched.

This appeals to me as well.

I think its impractical to require a player to give up a character level for the Fate Point (or, enough experience that the character would lose a level).

What if a FP can only be bought if the character is past half way to his next level. Buying an FP costs a number of XP equal to half the level.

For example, a character which just turned 2nd level has 1,000 xp. Level 3 is gained at 3,000 XP.

It's 2,000 XP to the next level. Half of that is 1,000. So, in order to gain a single FP, the character must spend 1000 xp (and he must have at least 2,000 xp to even buy it).




Or...to make the rule simpler..

Each FP = 1,000 xp, regardless of level.

FPs cannot be bought if spending the 1,000 xp would drop the character a level.

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Given how hard-won xp is in this game, I doubt many players would willingly relinquish their precious xp. Then again I guess it depends on how liberally GM's dole out the xp, right?