Evo Space combat : Free rules if you like them

[soulman]

Hello all and thanks for reading this topic, as pointed out in the subject i have been writing rules on and off for many years.

I myself love space combat and not happy with many combat systems and wanted to create a system with little book keeping and not loads of dice rolls and give the feeling of the battles we see today on the big screen.

So i have a file about 2 years old, but now and then i look at them, they use a system based on Evo and the movement of call to arms, but removes all the handfulls of dice and book keeping

" All ships have 4 hits, but its the wound and kill numbers that show if its a small one man fighter or a death star "

When you see the rules you can then see and feel the battles from the big screen on your tabletop.

I think its a good system, others that playtested it thought the same, but now its on my hard drive with no takers...

Shame would have been nice to see it in a book with my name on it...

Anyway if you like to know more ask, or i can send a wordfile to you..

Thanks for reading

 

[locarno24]

I'd be interested to have a look.

One thing I've been thinking about on and off is how to do a massed space combat system - and when I say massed I mean massed - where a normal game is 40+ capital ships.

I've had some ideas one tweaking the Evo rules (although it would require too much of a tweak to fit under the OGL license agreement) and it seems quite doable.

It'd be good to compare notes.


One previous idea I'd had - never had a chance to really playtest it - is here, using Evo for a space dogfighting system.

 

[Mr Evil]

i would love a copy bud... im currently looking into doing the same sort of thing myself but froma slightly different angle possably my feelings are that mass space combat game is relativly simple idea in theory realy..

first il ramble about some feelings than il go into ideas ive been developing...



we want a mini game with space combat, we like and play 25mm type games lots...

well a fighter is an infantryman.. a big ship is a vehicle !! a ship that can transport fighter craft is an apc !!!

it sounds so stupidly simple you wanna bash your head !!!

and evo rules would be perfect, you would have squadrons of fighters (units) while large ships patrol the area trying to avoid destroyers getting them (tanks v infantry with antitank weapons hiden amoungst units or going out solo on hunting missions)

an interesting idea would be as well that the large ships like tanks in games may actualy be faster than the fighters, due to larger thrusters.

i think the inherent problems with space combat are a few particular issues, you need to make range a way of ships staying safe and make fighter squadrons a viable tactic V large ships but not immune... we would normal have terrain as a way of making the game tactical and strategic, while in space we have facing as the normal decider....

the key to a breakthough i feel for space combat is to keep the simplicity and lack of record keeping from a wargame while retaining the no terrain element to space combat as an option.

maybe we could bounce some ideas around..

my basic run down is as above, treat fighters as infantry and big ships as vehicles and tanks..

what i need to do though is find a ground im happy with for incorperating invulnerable saves and target / kill modiiers ....

the above 2 need to fit with range angle and speed, as in theory space battles would be thought over large distances so large that weapons would find it very hard to hit a target as the target is quite possably traveling near the same speed as the projectile and a tueet may find it hard tracking and predicting a target several hundred miles away..

angle and speed, one idea is that ships get an invulnerable save depending on angle they are being hit from to represent speed and tracking problems for example front no invulnerable save from the rear a 6+ invulnerable save and from the side a 5+ invulnerable save, if a target spend 2 actions moving allow it to recieve a reroll on invulnerable saves, fighters get a +1 to all invulnerable saves. this could be incorperated into the stats as vehicles do have a front side and rear stat and room for invulnerable, infantrt/fighters would not have a front side or rear so again would not effect the licence..

range: normaly in a game of soldiers infantry are pretty much imune at long range due to cover, so this formed a little idea that ships are only targetable from from there hits plus target hits X 10 ok that sounds complex lol,, but a hits 4 carrier shooting at a hits 2 escort they would both be able to engage each other at range 60" (4+2x10) while an escort V escort would be limited to range 40" (2+2x10) battles.... this brings in some instant tactical decisions and army building ideas. this would represent the betetr targeting facilities and werapon effects on large ships V the large signature large ships would produce. this is a little like the rules for shooting through cover only slightly exspanded again not to far from the licence.

so thats range covered (obvously some weapons maynot be as long as the above contact signature range worked out)

cover ie asteroid feilds and such could just give a bonus to invulnerable save.. or a reroll

another idea is to allow a ship to stay still and boost its sheilds,, a ship that doesnt move could be allowed to boost its target and kill by +1 to represent extra efforts going into sheilds and damage controle...

stealth could allow a ship to have its size value not added to the range when enemy are shooting at it, but it gets to use its size when returning fire, but then looses the ability the turn after it shoots. but mayregain it if it spends a turn not shooting with any of its actions, maybe a ready action to restart the feild. or you could just use the basic stealth rules from modern warfare !!

ive probably made my realy simple idea very complicated sounding, and i appolagise,, lol..

but if any one likes the direction im going in im happy to persue it further..

 

[soulman]

Hi all and thanks for opening your mind to what Evo can do...

What i have done.. in short..

1. Used the movment system from call to arms etc...
2. Any size ship from a starfury to a Death star has 4 hits..!!!
3. The wound and kill become shields / hull

So a Starfury would be

STARFURY SHIELDS 4+ KILL 6+ HITS : 4

Meaning roll over shields to do 1 hit, or over Hull for 2 hits

A4 hit system is so simple, and when you taken 2 Hits - 50% damage you have to think about being carefully, and think about the films with all the bridge crew falling around...!!

COMBAT

Each weapon has ATTACK and DAMAGE dice

IE/ STARFURY CANNONS
ATTACK : 2D10
DAMAGE : 1D6+2

And the last thing is how to hit, well each ship has a EVADE number, and you need to roll this or more to hit with the ATTACK dice

So a STARFURY is EVADE 7+
So you need 7+ to hit on your ATTACK dice, A DEATHSTAR EVADE would be 1+ meaning you always hit it..

HIGHER the ATTACK and DAMAGE dice the better using the D6 and D10 type of dice.

Now bigger shios weapons would be more D6 attack, but D10 damage meaning they cannot hit a fast moving target ( EVADE 7+ ), but if they did the damage dice would destroy it.

Also traits to weapons like tanks etc in the basiv rules, like one hit kills etc...

So with the ATT and Dam dice for the weapons you can simple make any weapons you like, from beams of D10 attack to broadsides of D6, or a homing missles D10 ATT to a slow moving nuke D6..

Same with DAMAGE DICE too...

DAMAGE SYSTEM

By making the wound and kills number right for the size of ship etc and balance with the Dice number you have a working system from a one man fighter to a planet killer...

And cut down on the amount of dice rolled, call to arms had a lot of dice per ship, so now you break that down into smaller rolls, add it to the ATT and Dam numbers, and all the damage boxes swap to just 4 HIts, No more 50 hit ship, chipping it down with no worrys because you have 50 hits, but if you deathstar had 4 hits and you did take 1 HiT, Now that grabs your attention, much more then knocking off 2 to 3 little points..

ANYWAY...

It works, it feels like what you see on the big screen, when kirk is knocked around in the command chair and fire all around thats you 1 hit, when the shields hold, thats because the dame dice was not higher then the shields/Armour score..

Anyway this has been on my drive for 2 odd years so let me know, be nice for somebody turn acouple of B5 ships into this and Fight it out..!!!

Back to the new stargate show folks

 

[Mr Evil]

i like what you have tried to achieve, ive limited myself to sticking closer to BFevo rules...

shows there is alot of scope and ideas around for space combat and what people may whant form such a game... nice work

 

[locarno24]

I like.
Pretty much as I'd thought - with one minor shift; infantrymen are frigates/destroyers/corvettes/gunships/etc rather than just fighters - I like big capital ships to be big.......


A Target 4+, Kill 6+, Armour 4+, 1-hit units works well enough for the generic lighter unit.

Whilst weapons might vary between types, having a "squad heavy weapon" doesn't seem right.

However, the fire zone rules work very nicely in that a screen of lighter units can sit just in front of a superdreadnoughtdeathbattleshipstar - and by the way the mechanics work, the first attack dice in the fire zone have to be assigned to them (which will also be the highest rolls). Maybe being able to buy a 'unit' consisting of one big ship and its escorts?

Essentially you have a 'missile screen' you have to overwhelm with fire before you can start hitting the big guy repeatedly (since once everyone's been hit with one die you can dogpile the rest on a target of your choice)


Target and save varying with facing works fine (it's used in the rules at the moment).

Other than that....you can add in quite a few simple tweaks to make it work well; for shields or CIWS, for example, give a ship an increased target score for the first X attack dice assigned to it in any shoot action (so your 4+/6+ ship is 6+/6+ for the first hit it takes, meaning your missile screen is more than just ablative hit points!)



The big thing is movement. Restricted turns and compulsory moves are a large element in gettingthe 'feel' of space combat right. Defining turns much like ACTA (including agile/lumbering), and forcing one action to be a move (whilst the other can be a shoot or a ready).

Reactions are fine in theory. The only problem is with the above - if you have to make a move action, other units will be able to react to that - meaning that if the standard is move-shoot, once the two lines get close you move, you get shot and only then do you get to fire back. Seems a bit wrong in your own turn.

Suppression is also fine - you might say that ships shouldn't be suppressed, but the more fire you put into them, the more their guns will be on defensive duties, the more power will be put into shields and the more their crews will be focused on generally not dying rather than shooting back. It also covers minor temporary damage from the attack(generic 'sparking console' syndrome, I guess).

 

[Mr Evil]

i think the reactions would work well dont forget it applies to both sides so would in effect add another level of tactics on when and how to engage.

i understand what you mean about movment in space, but keeping to the bf evo rules strictly is doable with maybe a new ability called "mass effect" this essentualy means the unit needs to take a ready action to change direction otherwise it may only move and face the direction of facing,,, so for example you could ready then rotate your ship, (enemy may react) then move of in a straight line, or move in your straight line out of enemy reaction range then ready action to rotate.. this would slow down the large ships as small vessels would eb able to turn freely and not use up a shoot or move action just to rotate.

i think if we stuck strictly to evo rules and just use traits to counter some cause and effects its very doable....

for example you would have hit and kill rates lower on front (easier to predict movement head on) while on sides it would be harder to get the hit and kill due to speeds and such, yet the front would probably be more heavly armoured so its a trade of, an easy hit and tough armour or a hard target but weaker armour... the aim would be to have ships constantly trying to target enemy from the rear so as to close the distance and provide interesting move tactics.

for exampl il base this on a challenger tank from evo and alter it for space battle lol..

normaly it would be swap front for side and keep rear as rear for a straight conversion from evo tanks, side will always be hardest taket as in theory the target is accelerating past you,, think of it like throwing a football at a passing car against throwing a ball at a car driving towards you... in the same theory hitting a car with a ball moving away from you would be realy hard, but we can presume in this instance we can throw the ball verry hard and the rar is where the thrusters are and fuel.

Challenger main battle destroyer

size 4
move 5"
close combat 4x10
facing / target / save / kill
front 8+ 2+ 12+
side 8+ 2+ 13+
rear 8+ 3+ 11+

traits

hits 4 / mass effect / multifire / thrusters 14"

as you can see its a very simple translation lumbering has been replaced by mass effect, tracks replaced by thrusters (wheels would be replaced by overdrive)

you could effectivly with a simple list conversion chart use all the stats from modern combat and add maybe half a dozen extra rules to allow the game some tactics.

one idea i had wich may cause some discusion is long range hits, id propose that you roll and and do what you need but the effects of the hit are not applied till after the oponents turn on hits recieved from ranges over 36" away, so for example you could effectivly destroy an enemy ship but as the distance was so vast it gets a turn to engage and shoot back befor it is destroyed, this would represent the effect of missiles or shots and lock on comming in from so far away that the distance traveled takes mins not seconds, and is just enough time for the commander to make a desperate attempt to go down in a blaze of glory trying to take the enemy with him, or to deploy all its transported ships safly befor it blows... i think this would add a element of fun and tactics again... it would be simple the ship is classed as destroyed it just gets a death and glory turn with no chance of saving itself.

 

[Mr Evil]

ok i have done a little conversion document, all you need is either of the two EVO rule books to use this although i have done this with modern combat in mind.

i think this is prety much complete:

All traits stay the same unless noted differently below.

Note: on air units:

All air units in the BF-evo rules is capable of Vtol and landing, units not listed in the rules as Vtol are upgraded to Vtol for 50 points.

Every thing that’s not Vtol (Velocity Tempered Orbiting Leviathan) or land is considered in hyper space and the ship would be unable to engage or have any effect from such a position. hyperspace speeds such as loiter, cruise and burn maybe used but they would not be able to engage or be engaged till they dropped out of hyper and into Vtol mode or landed, Vtol mode is the crafts in space movement mode out of hyperspace, while landed is gravitationally secured so it may disembark transported units. Such craft are huge, and have powerful fields to protect them from close range weapons, while in Vtol mode the craft may not be targeted by close combat attacks and ignores fire zones not targeted at them, by the same effect any other vessels are not effected by fire zones targeted at these large craft due to their shields absorbing so much of the damage. In addition such units are so huge they cause a 20” reaction range rather than a normal 10” so huge are these vessels that when destroyed in Vtol mode they crash (see destroyed air units in BF-Evo rule book) such large units may also attempt flyby attacks on other such craft (refer to flyby charge rules in main BF-Evo rulebook) (any complications with such rules refer to main rule book and treat these as Vtol air units and all other units as ground units.

Players may have hyperspace battles between several craft currently in hyperspace around the system these are treated exactly like air units attacking air units, with the exception that what goes on in hyperspace has no effects on normal space unless a craft is destroyed then it crashes into normal space)

AA = Auto Action as soon as an enemy ship completes an action within 20” range it may react by shooting at the end of the enemy action that triggered it toward target.

AA only = as above but all shots are targeted at the unit that caused the reaction , no dice are applied to other near units.

Hits/X : as per rules book but in space units with a hits statistic may not spend 2 actions moving, they may move and shoot or shoot and move but they may not move and move, they have other big engines for such actions.

Lumbering: also know as “mass effect” these ships are so huge they need to spend a ready action to turn, and can only move and face in the direction of facing, unless the spend a ready action to rotate to a new facing.

Tracks : now becomes Thrusters this works just like tracks but travel must be in a straight line with no rotations.

Wheels : now becomes overdrive this works exactly like wheels, due to the inertia dampening that makes them susceptible to being knocked of course by hits they do have the advantage of being able to turn and rotate freely at either the beginning or end of its move (not both or during their move) unless lumbering, (if lumbering may not rotate at all during this move)


UNIT STATS

Convert units from Modern combat using the trait conversion notes above in addition for vehicles :

Front becomes the side, and side becomes the front, rear remains the rear.


Range rule additions…

Space is big, very big

DEATH AND GLOY… this rule is used if a ship is hit from over 36” away

Apply damage as normal, but do not remove target if destroyed, due to vast distances and time it takes for shots to land the enemy get a chance to go down as a hero, the ship gets to be used next turn as normal in all ways but at the end of that players ship activation all the damage effects take hold and model is then subject to being crippled, removed and possibly explode if such effects are caused, this gives the player a chance to unload any transported units or fly to a safe distance to blow up as to not effect friendly units possibly, or maybe just sit there and blast back at the enemy going down in a blaze of glory.


Cover, asteroids space stations and planets become such objects, planets being impassable with asteroid belts are hard cover and gas clouds are soft cover, terrain is as varied as the players so it’s a good idea to decide between your selves on such effects, all types of space phenomenon blocks line of sight, if unsure refer to structure section of the main BF-Evolution rule book.


Command ship,

Each army may have a command for every 2,000 points or part of, any ship can be upgraded to a command ship for 100 points, this ship allows you one bonus action that can be used any where within your (even on a crippled ship) once per turn, a fleet that contains 2 or more command ships still only gets one bonus action per turn, but obviously the others are effectively backup if your command vessel is destroyed.

Infantry: these are now your most mobile units these can be represented by small craft or a bunch of fighter on a single base these are allowed to move freely, face any direction and move with 2 actions, and react and can even dock transport ships, these are your key to a good attack, and due to their small size may not be targeted by weapons that roll a D10 or more.


I feel this is pretty complete.

next step would be to step back from modern combat stats and apply home made ship class stats.

 

[locarno24]

As said, it seems elegant enough.

Observations:

My one objection is not so much the turning as the moving; one of the big differences with space combat compared to land combat is the option to not move - barring fighters and suchlike, ships can't 'just stop'. If able to spend both actions shooting (or whatever) you end up with a gun-line, which lacks the right feel to the game. A lumbering ship isn't just difficult to turn, it has inertia dragging it forwards as the engines dig in, trying to throw it into a turn.

Hence why I was suggesting one compulsory move.

Unwieldy ships taking an action to turn makes sense, as that then distinguishes between gunships and capital vessels.


i.e.
1) some degree of compulsory forward movement
2) ability to spend actions on movement type things
~ Change heading (but not move)
~ Move straight ahead (but not change heading)

that gives you some control over your speed but doesn't let you instantaneously stop. Alternatively, if you are prepared to drift forwards without manouvring, you can use both actions to let fly with your guns.




Thinking about it, reactions are fine - most of a capital ship's primary guns would have Slow which means you wouldn't get to fire them as a reaction anyway. Only the auxiliary weapons (and fighter weapons) get to fire as a reaction, which seems fine. If you want to drive through a swarm of torpedo bombers, you deserve whatever you get...




Capital Ship: A capital ship cannot change its heading as part of a move action. It may change its heading by up to 45' by making a ready action to fire its manouvring drives. A capital ship gains an additional compulsory move action per turn which must be used before any other actions.

Agile: An agile capital ship which spends a ready action firing its manouvring drives may change its heading by up to 90'.


fighters, as noted, simply behave like infantry and make moves in whatever direction they feel like.....

A compulsory move does mean units that are screaming ahead at full tilt will be faster, but then a faster rate of movement compared to range tends to be a feature of naval games - since faster moving units with shorter range weapons compels you to keep moving.

Note that in A Call To Arms (which has a very good 'feel' for relative range/speed), the bulk of pulse/ion/bolter/etc weaponry (the 'small arms') falls into the ~12" range category, with only things like heavy lasers and missiles (the 'tank guns' and 'artillery') topping 20". Despite this, even big ships are normally covering 6" a turn whilst shooting, and the especially nippy ones can easily top a foot and a half of movement if they put their minds to it.

Target/kill scores will, as noted, depend on facing. Side versus front would be something to determine on a ship-by-ship basis; although I'd suggest that whilst deflection effects might make the side-on target score higher, they probably wouldn't affect the kill score (since it's a question of whether your nuke hits the ship, not how tough the ship is if it's hit).


I'm not sure I'm so much of a fan of death or glory; one it adds bookkeeping (if it's dead, remove it!), and two it removes some of my options; if there's no way to take out your carrier before it launches fighters, why bother? If someone manages to cut through your fighter screen and hammer a ship so it's going to blow up in the middle of one of your squadrons (note to self; give plenty of bigger ships Retaliate!), why shouldn't they get the payoff? From a feel perspective; I can see the missile incoming, but why do I know for definite that that is a kill?

If you really want this ability, I suggest something like the Victory At Sea torpedo rules - where you basically put down a marker against the target when shooting, and the impact is resolved later - that might work better (so when using a slow-to-arrive weapon, you will get a turn knowing that a spread of antiship missiles is inbound, but won't know if you'll survive them - do you turn abeam to them and hope for the best, or keep prow on to use your main guns and accept the near-certain loss of the ship?). I'd tie that to a weapon trait, though rather than just a range; a laser will almost by definition kill you before you know you're under fire. Suggested trait:

Delayed: Delayed weapons include all-manner of slow-flying projectiles and fighter wings; unlike weapons that travel at or near light-speed, the target has time to realise it is under fire and (potentially) react accordingly. Place a marker by the target in the direction of the incoming fire to note that a delayed weapon has been fired at it, but do not roll damage dice until the start of your next turn. Note that whilst the facing that the damage dice will be rolled against may change, it is not necessary to check the range again; the range from firer to target is only relevant when the marker is initially placed (and indeed the firer may have been destroyed in the interim).





Fighter rules:

I don't think a "no D10 weapons" exemption is really needed - most humunga-guns will probably come with a lethal zone, so swatting clouds of gunships with a dreadnought's broadside seems fair enough. Since they get reactions and the enemy doesn't, the prime tactic would probably be to fly in on a ship, shoot it, then as it thunders past (compelled to by the Capital Ship trait) shoot it more before it gets to open up with its own guns.

Besides which, even if a weapon doesn't have a lethal zone, you fire your megalaser with D10+6 damage. You fry one gunship in a fantastic display of overkill (unless it passes a dodge save). Then you remember that there are twenty of them in the formation bearing down on you and wish you had taken the 5xD6+1 multiburst cannons instead. Especially since the big gun has Slow and you can't even fire it a second time this turn...


Oh- idea text for shields

Shields/X: For the purposes of the first X damage dice allocated to the model in each shooting action, its target score counts as one higher than normal for the purpose of determining if a hit was inflicted.

Command vessels; A nice and simple way to deal with admirals. Note that it's unit, not fleet - in practical terms you're probably looking at 1-hit gunships in squadrons of 10+.


Close combat....... neither the phrase charge or the phrase 'close combat' makes sense, really, however it does still work for dogfights. In fact, if you largely remove a fighter's ranged armament (so it's got to get within a lethal range of say 3-4" to attack) then they become the fast, disposable assault unit a fighter should be. Equally, if a capital ship has a suitably big lethal zone then a charge action means closing and opening up with the lighter close-quarter batteries (so a close combat score of 8xD6 would more common than 4xD10), which - since that damage will occur before reactions, even gives the megalaser armed ship above a way to squish the swarm of gunships (a bit). Just use size values so that a lethal zone is a small bubble around a ship or gunship, not a punch-you-in-the-face close combat range.



So.....equivalent statline:


Challenger Main Battle Dreadnought

Size 6 - (gives it the 'flak area' for close combat)
move 3" - (since it will be moving up to 3 move actions, i.e. 3-9")
Close Combat 8xD6 - (good at fending off small things)

front 8+ 2+ 12+
side 9+ 2+ 12+
rear 8+ 3+ 11+

Traits

Hits 4, Lumbering, Multifire/All, Capital Ship (limits manouvring), Retaliate (reactor going up!), Shields/3

Weapons
3 Railguns (FaR) - 20" - D10+3 - Slow, Piercing/2, Multihit
3 Railguns (FaL) - 20" - D10+3 - Slow, Piercing/2, Multihit
Multiburst Cannons (FaF) - 10" - 4xD6+1 - Auto
Multiburst Cannons (FaR) - 10" - 4xD6+1 - Auto
Multiburst Cannons (FaL) - 10" - 4xD6+1 - Auto

 

[Mr Evil]

you have brought up a good point about momentum and enertia, somthing i missed on with my version, i shall amend it above in a moment..

yes my system would have ship often standing still wich isnt what we want realy is it.

3 possably solutions to this

A) a simple adition to the rules could be all ships must be moved forward in direction of facing thier size in " befor taking each action.

so for example my challenger example would have to move 4" befor its 1st action say ready (turn) then just befor second action it would move another 4" and could shoot or move with its second action or turn around again.. efectivly staying still at the exspense of shooting.

B) a ship must move its size in " after its first action, unless ship takes a ready action to apply stationary thrusters. this move must be in direction of facing.

C) a ship must move its size in " befor its first action, . this move must be in direction of facing.

D) ships must be moved forward in direction of facing thier size in " after taking each action.

it the challengers 1st action would be to shoot, then its forced to move 4" second action could be to turn then it would be forced to move another 4"

i like the fun and pressure A) could add, i like the trade of on version B) and version C) seems most easy to manage, and finaly jsut edited in is D) wich worked very nicly as it gives you a chance to change heading befor being sent of the table, also D and A allow a ship with a ready action to cover a distance of 4+4+14= 22" i ansty suprise for the enemy or a great way to make distance and try to escape or change your flank attack.

im siding for D) as its easiest to remeber and use in a game from fidling with modles,


i think the diference with my sytem is its basicly EVO in space with very little modification and a diferent feel to how ships would feel and operate in space compared to say hollywood for example..

i will ahve to make soem model examples to represent the sort of look and feel im trying to portray maybe.

when i was doing this i loved the creation from the air rules for hyperjump ships ariving and then droping into space to launch small carriers that can carry small ships.. ie an osprey droping shadows carrying marines for example.

 

[soulman]

Hi all i`m back after posting about combat, and i thought i show you a warship like a fast moving cruiser looks like


TYPE
CRUISER
SIZE 4
SPEED 3"/6"
TURNS 45/2
EVADE 4+
SHIELDS 6+
HULL 9+

As you see the same movement as call to arms and to hit this ship with you Attack dice you need to roll 4+
Once you have hit you roll your damage dice needing a 6+ for 1 Hit, or a 9+ for 2 Hits...

No armour or shield saves to get in the way of pace, its build into the shields/ hull numbers....

And a weapon system, say the main weapon on this crusier would be a main beam

MAIN BEAM
RANGE : 30
TARGETS : 1
ATTACK : 1D6
DAMAGE : 1D10
TRAIT : FIXED FRONT

as you see its rolls a 1D6 to hit any ships, like 4+ for the above cruiser, and damage wise very good, and you could destory the above crusier with 2 full on hits, slicing across the hull, the only problem is the fixed firing postion so you need to point your ship at the target

For Defence against smaller ships and fighters you have smaller turrets

TURRETS
RANGE : 10"
TARGETS : 2
ATTACK : 2D10
DAMAGE : 1D6
TRAIT : 360 ATTACK

these are the gun turrets on the ship have shorter range and weaker damage, but with the ability to track and hit smaller craft with its ATTACK dice of 2D10, this weapon system can attack in all directions and spilt its attack dice against 2 targets....


So you can see a simple layout, great visually damage system, only 4 hits to worry about in book keeping too...

Enjoy

 

[locarno24]

3 possably solutions to this

A) a simple adition to the rules could be all ships must be moved forward in direction of facing thier size in " befor taking each action.

so for example my challenger example would have to move 4" befor its 1st action say ready (turn) then just befor second action it would move another 4" and could shoot or move with its second action or turn around again.. efectivly staying still at the exspense of shooting.

B) a ship must move its size in " after its first action, unless ship takes a ready action to apply stationary thrusters. this move must be in direction of facing.

C) a ship must move its size in " befor its first action, . this move must be in direction of facing.

D) ships must be moved forward in direction of facing thier size in " after taking each action.

it the challengers 1st action would be to shoot, then its forced to move 4" second action could be to turn then it would be forced to move another 4"

i like the fun and pressure A) could add, i like the trade of on version B) and version C) seems most easy to manage, and finaly jsut edited in is D) wich worked very nicly as it gives you a chance to change heading befor being sent of the table, also D and A allow a ship with a ready action to cover a distance of 4+4+14= 22" i ansty suprise for the enemy or a great way to make distance and try to escape or change your flank attack.

im siding for D) as its easiest to remeber and use in a game from fidling with modles,

I'd have to say D as the best. If the Capital Ship trait means you move your a distance equal to your size forwards after each action, then you have to deal with 6-8" of compulsory move - it also adds in a certain amount of issues with timing; you have to fire with your first action before movement carries you out of range.....

Equally, it means that you don't actually have to 'move' - simply rotate (and free move) or shoot (and free move) - actually making a move action therefore represents gunning it and trying to push beyond normal 'cruising speed'. I'm not sure that a Wheels or Tracks equivalent is necessarily needed on top of that.

Also, I'd cut the move distances down - if a challenger main battle destroyer is getting 8" 'free' move, then its actual move actions don't want to add up to more than that - 16" move is about the most you want to have a unit moving on a normal sized board.


Although a very long distance one (i.e. more than the usual "two move actions plus an inch or so") makes for a nice in-system hyperspace jump. You can even use the trait name Jump for it - since that does exactly that... As you noted, one ready action for warming up the jump engine (plus a short drift) and then a jump of a foot or so, a free shot, and another drift. It's kind of akin to a 40k turbo-boosting bike; but also has a nice effect (due to the EVO rules) that since you can react to any action when close enough, you may find yourself getting shot at when making the ready action ("Hit them before their jump engines are charged!")



I do like the effect that a bigger ship has more inertia to deal with. The downsides are that:

(a) it also makes a bigger ship faster unless the smaller ship uses move actions to keep up, which gives it even less chance to use its already inferior guns.

(b) a command ship's extra action makes a ship suffer more from inertia by using its ability. Equally, nothing forces you to use both or even any actions with a given unit, which dismisses inertia at the same time in this model.

(c) it kind of stymies the idea about turning close combat into close-ranged weapons, since the size area - effectively the range of those guns - can't be more than about 4-5" radius or the inertial movement becomes ridiculous. I do think that close combat is a good way to deal with fighters - an infantry model equivalent making a charge action is equivalent to a strafing run, and a bomber can use an actual ranged weapon to fire from a longer range - so it doesn't expose itself to a charge action in response from the enemy capital ship, where the flak weapons would squash it flat.




I think (a) and (c) are fairly easily dealt with by making the inertial move a fixed amount as part of the Capital Ship trait - enough to make it impossible to hold position and to allow people to position themselves to take advantage of it, but not enough to turn every ship into a drag racer. I'd suggest 3" (bear in mind that this will be doubled up to 6"). With that added to the straight-line speed of every move action, it's going add up fast.

(b) requires a couple of extra provisions; firstly the Capital Ship trait could use an additional provision that you MUST use both actions each turn (but obviously you can waste them with a ready action with no practical effect if you wish). Although (that said), I suppose it does give you the ability to 'all stop' by essentially shutting the ship down (except for reaction fire).

Secondly on (b) the Command Ship trait needs a provision that this additional action does not require a unit with the Capital Ship trait to move after completing it.

 

[Mr Evil]

i think you make some good points, trather than high jack this thead anu more im going to start a new thread called BF evo Universe... and answer your ideas there bud.