Eurmal Aspect - Liar

[PhilHibbs]

Each aspect of Eurmal gets two Divine Spells. I'm not sure what the other spell should be for the Liar aspect, but here is my take on the Lie spell:

Lie
Duration Instant, Rank Initiate, Ranged

This spell is cast immediately after the trickster has told a lie, with the words "And you believe me". All those hearing the lie are forced to believe it, while they are in the company of the caster. Once they leave the caster's presence, and any time subsequently that they think about what they have been told, they make a Persistence test and on a success, the compulsion ends and they may re-assess the truth of what they have been told. When this spell is cast, the caster must also roll Persistence, and if the result is a fumble, they believe the lie themselves. The only ways that they can snap out of this belief are Heal Mind, or if their mind is dissassociated from itself through Befuddle, Madness, or similar discombobulation effect, or a further use of the Lie spell by another trickster that directly contradicts the first lie.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Maybe the Liar aspect is a variant of the Mask, and gets Lie instead of Mindlink, the other being Illusion.

 

[Vagni]

I like the spell Phil.

Id probably modify it to everyone gets to resist with Persistence when it's first cast and can only make further Persistence rolls to shake the lie off if they are presented with irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Otherwise its pretty powerful. Maybe there could be a negative modifier to the victims roll based on the magnitude of the spell to reflect the fact that Tricksters with a higher Pact are more in touch with their lying patron.

I just love the idea of walking in to a Sun Dome temple and telling everyone the sun definitely will not be rising tomorrow...trickster, sharp exit, stage left... :lol:

 

[PhilHibbs]

Id probably modify it to everyone gets to resist with Persistence when it's first cast...

That makes the spell very different indeed - with any more than two or three people, someone is bound to make their roll and so it becomes a "Create Arguement" spell.

...and can only make further Persistence rolls to shake the lie off if they are presented with irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Otherwise its pretty powerful.

...and then you make it more powerful against individual targets. No, I like the idea that it wears off fairly quickly once the trickster has wandered off.

Maybe there could be a negative modifier to the victims roll based on the magnitude of the spell to reflect the fact that Tricksters with a higher Pact are more in touch with their lying patron.

You could say that about any divine magic, and do you really want to have to keep track of the caster's Pact skill? Lets say the party stumble into the Trickster Temple, and a dozen tricksters are all casting Lie spells. That's a dozen different Pact skill penalties to keep track of! Extreme example, I know...

 

[Vagni]

Id probably modify it to everyone gets to resist with Persistence when it's first cast...

That makes the spell very different indeed - with any more than two or three people, someone is bound to make their roll and so it becomes a "Create Arguement" spell.

...and can only make further Persistence rolls to shake the lie off if they are presented with irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Otherwise its pretty powerful.

...and then you make it more powerful against individual targets. No, I like the idea that it wears off fairly quickly once the trickster has wandered off.

Maybe there could be a negative modifier to the victims roll based on the magnitude of the spell to reflect the fact that Tricksters with a higher Pact are more in touch with their lying patron.

You could say that about any divine magic, and do you really want to have to keep track of the caster's Pact skill? Lets say the party stumble into the Trickster Temple, and a dozen tricksters are all casting Lie spells. That's a dozen different Pact skill penalties to keep track of! Extreme example, I know...

I can see the logic of making it the way you have, but I'd be a bit uneasy about an emotion/intellect effecting spell that has no chance to resist initially, as all such spells in the core book have Resist (Persistence). But, like you say, more than 3 or 4 targets and then you can almost guarantee someone's going to resist it...hence the suggestion about the pact skill to make it harder to resist when cast by a skilled trickster.

Maybe the Influence skill could play a part in the spell somehow, but again that complicates things a little...

Maybe its just a case of 'you can fool some of the people some of the time...' :wink:

 

[PhilHibbs]

I can see the logic of making it the way you have, but I'd be a bit uneasy about an emotion/intellect effecting spell that has no chance to resist initially, as all such spells in the core book have Resist (Persistence).

It's a big tone-down from the AHRQ version of the spell - no resistance, and you have to believe it until you receive definitive evidence to the contrary, e.g. the sun does rise the next morning, or a priest casts Divination to ask Yelm if it is going to.

Maybe its just a case of 'you can fool some of the people some of the time...' :wink:

Indeed, "you can fool all the people some of the time" is the basis of this spell.

 

[Exubae]

It's a big tone-down from the AHRQ version of the spell - no resistance, and you have to believe it until you receive definitive evidence to the contrary, e.g. the sun does rise the next morning, or a priest casts Divination to ask Yelm if it is going to.

That was such cool/pain in the ass spell.
One of my players Chris his character (The son of the Tribes Chief, and an Uroxi), was going to marry a wench from a previously feuding tribe... Mark, another player was playing a trickster used lie on Chris' character convinced him that his bride to be had been having an afair during their courtship...
The marriage ceremony turned into a blood bath...
Chris' character did survive to clear his name and brutally bring the Trickster to justice

I much prefer your calmer version.

There was another cool spell I saw kick about the net;

Boratory
It caused a targets conversation to become dull and uninteresting so that the majority of listeners ignored what was said by the target, some even falling asleep.

 

[sdavies2720]

Id probably modify it to everyone gets to resist with Persistence when it's first cast...

That makes the spell very different indeed - with any more than two or three people, someone is bound to make their roll and so it becomes a "Create Arguement" spell....

It strikes me that this is a perfect place for a "Team Test" where you roll once for everyone affected, using the highest Persistence.

I love the spell, and know a couple of players who would take it in an instant! But I'll probably try it with a Persistence roll first.

Steve

 

[EricJ]

I like the spell Phil.

I just love the idea of walking in to a Sun Dome temple and telling everyone the sun definitely will not be rising tomorrow...trickster, sharp exit, stage left... :lol:

Casting the spell in a Sun Dome temple reduces the Lore(Trickster) percentage by 10 * Magnitude Consecrate(Yelmalio)%. This should make the lie too tricky to attempt.

 

[PhilHibbs]

Casting the spell in a Sun Dome temple reduces the Lore(Trickster) percentage by 10 * Magnitude Consecrate(Yelmalio)%. This should make the lie too tricky to attempt.

Is there a mythic justification for that, did Yelmalio have some unusual immunity to Trickster magic?

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Casting the spell in a Sun Dome temple reduces the Lore(Trickster) percentage by 10 * Magnitude Consecrate(Yelmalio)%. This should make the lie too tricky to attempt.

Is there a mythic justification for that, did Yelmalio have some unusual immunity to Trickster magic?

ISTR a general rule about it being more dificult to cast (divine) magic in the temple of another god

 

[PhilHibbs]

ISTR a general rule about it being more dificult to cast (divine) magic in the temple of another god

OK, I'd accept that. So, take care only to try this trick in the barracks next door to the Sun Dome.

 

[EricJ]

Casting the spell in a Sun Dome temple reduces the Lore(Trickster) percentage by 10 * Magnitude Consecrate(Yelmalio)%. This should make the lie too tricky to attempt.

Is there a mythic justification for that, did Yelmalio have some unusual immunity to Trickster magic?

Whoops. Bad memory. The Consecrate [to Deity] spell has the effect of adding 5 * Magnitude % to worshipper's Lore[Deity] percentage for Divine Magic casting, and penalizes non-worshippers the same amount. It's just the Rules As Written[TM].

It's also reasonable. You could never make a Divine Intervention attempt from within an enemy temple, even back in the Chaosium RQ1 days.