Escort and spec.actions

[Orphanmaker]

A situation came up the other day. A Primus jumps in from hyperspace in the middle of my fleet escorted by two maximus. The Centauri player announces that he will be using the special action "intensify defensive fire" to dubble the natural anitfighter and interceptor-scores of the maximus. Then he procedes to use his escort trait to give a lot of interceptors to the Primus. My question is:
Is this legal? Isnt it considered a special action to USE the escort trait?

Cheers
Orphan

 

[Greg Smith]

Perfectly legal. It is not a special action to use escort.

 

[Da Boss]

Indeed its kinda the point of the new 2nd Ed Maximus - support of captial vessels rather than a system defense ship. Its ability is akin to Scouting in that it can carry out a Special action - usually Close Blast Doors or Intensfy as well as performing the lending trick.

The only thing to be careful about with exiting a Jump Point is IIRC you need either a Scout on the table or Advanced Jump Engines (or Hyperspace Mastery) to act normally - and most importantly fire!! Often why its better to jump in with a Liati (Adv Jump engines) than a Primus.

If you don't have either -I think just just move forward our of the Vortex and can take no Special Actions or fire until your next turn.

The other issue is that a ship generating the Jump Vortex needs to carry out the Activate Jump Egnies (or whatever its called) to allow it and any other ships through so it can't carry out any other Special Actions that turn.

 

[Foxmeister]

I would've thought it was illegal for the Maximus to use "Intensify Defensive Fire", since it starts it's turn in Hyperspace and the only SA that can be declared whilst in Hyperspace is "Initiate Jump Point"?

i.e. at the point the Maximus starts it's movement phase, it is still in Hyperspace and therefore ineligible to declare the SA.

Regards,

Dave

 

[katadder]

if the maximus came through the primuses JP then it hasnt used an SA so can use intensify defensive batteries quite happily.

 

[Greg Smith]

Katadder is correct.

Moving from hyperspace to realspace in this way demands a great deal of energy and so a ship creating a jump point may not turn, launch fi ghters, or use any Special Actions in the same turn. In addition, it may not create a new jump point for the rest of the battle, as the jump engines require extensive recharging. Ships using a jump gate or jump point created by another ship are not subject to these penalties.

 

[basaint]

Ok guys
You gotta help me out here. I keep seeing all the chat about Escorting Cap ships, but the only rules I can remember finding stated its about adding to AF or something like that.
Someone point me in the right direction (page).

thanks
SAint

 

[Greg Smith]

Escort trait, rulebook page 17. Allows a ship with Escort to lend AF dice to ships within 8".

Centauri Guardian Array rule, fleetbook page 71. Centauri ships with Inteceptors and Escort can lend interceptor dice.

Intensify Defensive Firepower, rulebook page 15. Double AF and Interceptor, but halve AD on weapons.

 

[basaint]

OK, so then i wasnt really on crack then. Thanks G

So then its only the Cent. that can lend Interceptors to other ships? I remember a game early on that I had where my EA opponent used them to escort his other ships.

 

[Greg Smith]

Yes, only the Centauri. Of course the EA can use fighters as inteceptors.

 

[basaint]

Damn, i feel cheated! Oh well, thanks again G.

Btw, we share the Smith name, big G

 

[Greg Smith]

The best name in the world!

 

[Taran]

Katadder is correct.

Moving from hyperspace to realspace in this way demands a great deal of energy and so a ship creating a jump point may not turn, launch fi ghters, or use any Special Actions in the same turn. In addition, it may not create a new jump point for the rest of the battle, as the jump engines require extensive recharging. Ships using a jump gate or jump point created by another ship are not subject to these penalties.

That clashes with the very specific rule that ALL SAs must be declared at the start of that particular ship's movement phase. That would be while the ship is still in Hyper and before it moves into normal space.

Also, the Scout traits specifically states (in the rulebook, at least) that it can be used In Place Of a normal SA. That may have been changed in P&P, though.

Can you clear up those issues for me?

 

[Greg Smith]

That clashes with the very specific rule that ALL SAs must be declared at the start of that particular ship's movement phase. That would be while the ship is still in Hyper and before it moves into normal space.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Also, the Scout traits specifically states (in the rulebook, at least) that it can be used In Place Of a normal SA. That may have been changed in P&P, though.

That was changed in 2nd edition. A scout ship can both perform a SA and scout.

 

[Burger]

Katadder is correct.

Moving from hyperspace to realspace in this way demands a great deal of energy and so a ship creating a jump point may not turn, launch fi ghters, or use any Special Actions in the same turn. In addition, it may not create a new jump point for the rest of the battle, as the jump engines require extensive recharging. Ships using a jump gate or jump point created by another ship are not subject to these penalties.

That clashes with the very specific rule that ALL SAs must be declared at the start of that particular ship's movement phase. That would be while the ship is still in Hyper and before it moves into normal space.

There is nothing to stop you declaring IDF! whilst in hyperspace, so long as you move into normal space during the movement phase.

The rule that states "Ships in hyperspace cannot perform any action other than the Initiate Jump Point Special Action" is obviously not correct: sticking to the wording of that rule, no ship could even move through a jump point into realspace!

 

[Orphanmaker]

That clashes with the very specific rule that ALL SAs must be declared at the start of that particular ship's movement phase. That would be while the ship is still in Hyper and before it moves into normal space.

I'm not sure I follow you.

Also, the Scout traits specifically states (in the rulebook, at least) that it can be used In Place Of a normal SA. That may have been changed in P&P, though.

That was changed in 2nd edition. A scout ship can both perform a SA and scout.

Can someone please guide me to a page in the rulebook where it says that a scout can do SA and scout in the same turn? I was under de impression that you could do one but not both.

Cheers
Orphan

 

[AdrianH]

Ships don't move in the usual sense in hyperspace, i.e. you don't take a measuring tape and move the model a certain distance. If the ship does enter realspace, its movement phase seems to start on the exit jump point; that's where you start measuring its movement, and that's where it declares "Intensify Defensive Firepower". If the ship does not enter realspace, it has no movement phase and can not be nominated as an init sink, the exception being if it declares "Initiate Jump Point" but stays in hyperspace.

I'm more amused by the rule on p.26 which says that a ship creating a jump point can not use any special actions (e.g. "Initiate Jump Point"). :lol:

 

[Burger]

Can someone please guide me to a page in the rulebook where it says that a scout can do SA and scout in the same turn? I was under de impression that you could do one but not both.

The Scout ability is described on page 19.
Special Actions are described on page 13.
Nowhere does it say that either is restricted by use of the other.

This was a change in 2nd edition... you could not do both in 1st ed (all the way up to Armageddon). There was a sentence in the Scout trait that stated you could not use it if you used a special action that turn. This is removed in 2nd ed, therefore the restriction is lifted.

If the ship does enter realspace, its movement phase seems to start on the exit jump point; that's where you start measuring its movement, and that's where it declares "Intensify Defensive Firepower".

Well not quite; the SA is declared "when a ship is nominated to move", not when it first starts moving. At this point it is definitely still in hyperspace.

 

[AdrianH]

There is nothing to stop you declaring IDF! whilst in hyperspace, so long as you move into normal space during the movement phase.

If the ship does enter realspace, its movement phase seems to start on the exit jump point; that's where you start measuring its movement, and that's where it declares "Intensify Defensive Firepower".

Well not quite; the SA is declared "when a ship is nominated to move", not when it first starts moving. At this point it is definitely still in hyperspace.

Does the ship start its movement in hyperspace, where the only SA it's allowed is "Initiate Jump Point"; or just as it exits hyperspace, where it's free to declare "Intensify Defensive Firepower" so long as it wasn't the ship which formed the jump point?

 

[Democratus]

Does the ship start its movement in hyperspace, where the only SA it's allowed is "Initiate Jump Point"; or just as it exits hyperspace, where it's free to declare "Intensify Defensive Firepower" so long as it wasn't the ship which formed the jump point?

As noted, it doesn't matter when the ships movement actually begins, because the SA must be declared when the ship is nominated - not when it starts moving.

The ship is nominated when still in hyperspace. A ship in Hyperspace can give no SA other than "Initiate Jump Point".