No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
The bonehead manouver is it being removed? As if its only from an enemys JP it doesnt seem to bad.
Early EA Bonehead manouver
- Thread starter No. 1 Bear
- Start date
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
It needs to go. First off, it doesn't even fit canon. It requires a Jump Gate in the show. Even if it is restricted to enemy jump points, that doesn't exactly make sense. I can drop a JP in your points to make them go boom but not my own? what makes yours so special?
lastbesthope
Mongoose
l33tpenguin said:
It only required a Jump gate because they didn't have any other way to make 2 jump points other than using a jump gate for one of them.
LBH
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Let me know if I'm remembering wrong, but Sheridan said speifically that Earth tried opening a jump point inside an active jump gate. Which would imply that a jump gate was required.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
To be honest, if it can only be used against an enemy jump point I'm actually in favour of keeping it in I hadn't actually read the rule in the playtest rules, so hadn't noticed this. 
Yes, it could be devastating, but since you'd have to invite the possibility in the first place I really don't see an issue. Generally speaking, you're only going to open a jump gate to bug out and if that's the case it's likely the fleets have both closed sufficiently such that they will both take a serious whack from the explosion.
Regards,
Dave
Yes, it could be devastating, but since you'd have to invite the possibility in the first place I really don't see an issue. Generally speaking, you're only going to open a jump gate to bug out and if that's the case it's likely the fleets have both closed sufficiently such that they will both take a serious whack from the explosion.
Regards,
Dave
It is unclear what happens to the ship opening the original jump point if its from hyperspace - it does not seem to specifiy that the vortex is real- hyperspace or vice versa.
It makes Earth attacker potentailly very nasty if you are playing "Flee to the Jump Gate!"
If a jump Gate is involved it should be destroyed?
Is there any effect on any ships in hyperspace?
:?:
It makes Earth attacker potentailly very nasty if you are playing "Flee to the Jump Gate!"
If a jump Gate is involved it should be destroyed?
Is there any effect on any ships in hyperspace?
:?:
Greg Smith
Mongoose
In game terms, if it can only be used in a jump gate, it is useless. There is only one generic scenario using a jump gate and no other way to incorporate one in a game. Using the Bonehead manuever to destroy the gate in Flee to the Jump Gate is either suicidal for the fleeing player or cheesey beyond cheese for the persuer.
While the new rule stating it can only be used in an enemy created jump point or a jump gate is better than the original one in S&P where the Hermes became the most feared ship in the galaxy, it still has some problems. Of course with the original write up we have a new explanation for what occurred at the end of the Earth-Minbari War:
Minbari Crewman: Sir the Earthers have surrounded their homeworld with every available ship they can.
Minbari Admiral: It does not matter how many of those Novas and Hyperions they muster, the humans are doomed.
Minbari Crewman: I am picking something else up on the scanners.
Minbari Admiral: Whether a dozen more defense monitors or their new destroyers it does not matter, we will be avenged.
Minbari Crewman: ...but sir... it is several Hermes scattered amongst their fleet.
Minbari Admiral: What! Now we do not have a Vorlon's chance on Zha'ha'dum of winning this battle....Order the fleet to surrender.
Minbari Crewman: Sir the Earthers have surrounded their homeworld with every available ship they can.
Minbari Admiral: It does not matter how many of those Novas and Hyperions they muster, the humans are doomed.
Minbari Crewman: I am picking something else up on the scanners.
Minbari Admiral: Whether a dozen more defense monitors or their new destroyers it does not matter, we will be avenged.
Minbari Crewman: ...but sir... it is several Hermes scattered amongst their fleet.
Minbari Admiral: What! Now we do not have a Vorlon's chance on Zha'ha'dum of winning this battle....Order the fleet to surrender.
And that about wraps it up for Bonehead Manoeuvre. It's specific to EA Early Years, it requires an advanced jump engine, and the entire EA Early Years fleet doesn't have one advanced jump engine between them. :lol:
In canon terms, I can't remember what was said in the episode, but there wouldn't have been much point in using the manoeuvre on a jump gate during the Earth/Minbari war. Partly because Earth needed the jump gates for its evacuation, and partly because the Minbari fleet didn't need jump gates as they did have advanced jump engines. The only time it would have done any good is if they'd seen a jump point forming and sent a suicide ship to bonehead it, clobbering the Minbari fleet as it tried to exit hyperspace.
In game terms, I'd therefore suggest requiring a CQ of at least 10 (standard crews can just about do it) or maybe more (standard crews can't do it at all so it won't happen in a casual game, using it in a campaign means sacrificing a good crew). It must be used on a jump gate or enemy jump point. And having made the CQ check to persuade the crew to commit suicide, you then need to make a hit roll to put your jump point where you want it when you want it, i.e. just as the enemy ship comes out of hyperspace. Get it wrong and you just open another jump point at a random location; get it really wrong and you blow up the jump point and yourself without hurting the enemy.
Bottom line: it's supposed to be a desperation move, to be tried if there is absolutely no alternative, as you have a good chance of losing a good crew and little chance of doing anything back.
In canon terms, I can't remember what was said in the episode, but there wouldn't have been much point in using the manoeuvre on a jump gate during the Earth/Minbari war. Partly because Earth needed the jump gates for its evacuation, and partly because the Minbari fleet didn't need jump gates as they did have advanced jump engines. The only time it would have done any good is if they'd seen a jump point forming and sent a suicide ship to bonehead it, clobbering the Minbari fleet as it tried to exit hyperspace.
In game terms, I'd therefore suggest requiring a CQ of at least 10 (standard crews can just about do it) or maybe more (standard crews can't do it at all so it won't happen in a casual game, using it in a campaign means sacrificing a good crew). It must be used on a jump gate or enemy jump point. And having made the CQ check to persuade the crew to commit suicide, you then need to make a hit roll to put your jump point where you want it when you want it, i.e. just as the enemy ship comes out of hyperspace. Get it wrong and you just open another jump point at a random location; get it really wrong and you blow up the jump point and yourself without hurting the enemy.
Bottom line: it's supposed to be a desperation move, to be tried if there is absolutely no alternative, as you have a good chance of losing a good crew and little chance of doing anything back.
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
Thats the exact line from the show.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
OK, it said jump gate in the episode, but if it works in a jump gate, why not a non gate jump point.
ANyway, back to the wailing and gnashing of teeth
LBH
ANyway, back to the wailing and gnashing of teeth
LBH
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
Personally i dont feel that its too bad now that it has to be an enemy jump point. It will require some testing. All this means is that you have to be nuts to jump in on an EA Early years fleet and that if you try to jump out your dead. However it would be an interesting tactic for the opponent to jump right in the middle of the EA fleet as using the manouvre then would be counter productive.
I feel that it needs some more testing and may need some tweaking. I will test it tommorow. I think the results would be Interesting. 5pt Raid. I will report back tommorow.
So Fleets (Mine)
2 Hyperion Rail Cruisers
1 Explorer
1 Avenger
1 Olympus corvette, 2 Hermes
1 Olympus Corvette, 2 Hermes
This is quite a balanced fleet lets see how it fairs against.
My mates fleet centauri (note he will NOT be using the hunting pack rule)
2 Vorchan
1 Vorchan, 1 Corvan
2 Demos
2 Demos
1 Balvarian.
I feel that it needs some more testing and may need some tweaking. I will test it tommorow. I think the results would be Interesting. 5pt Raid. I will report back tommorow.
So Fleets (Mine)
2 Hyperion Rail Cruisers
1 Explorer
1 Avenger
1 Olympus corvette, 2 Hermes
1 Olympus Corvette, 2 Hermes
This is quite a balanced fleet lets see how it fairs against.
My mates fleet centauri (note he will NOT be using the hunting pack rule)
2 Vorchan
1 Vorchan, 1 Corvan
2 Demos
2 Demos
1 Balvarian.
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Jumpgates are loaded full of quantium 40, that super powerful element that makes opening a hole into hyperspace possible. Its even stated how taking a jump gate offline or bringing it on line is a long and difficult task because of the vast amounts of power they contain.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
OK, but there's a lot of energy in a jump point, and a nearby ship that opened it with some Q40 in t's jump engines no doubt. It'd likely still be possible to make a bang.
Even just the shockave as the one JP collapsed the other (the likely minimum outcome as I see it) would be nasty.
LBH
Even just the shockave as the one JP collapsed the other (the likely minimum outcome as I see it) would be nasty.
LBH
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
I'm just citing what we can take from the show. Sheradin states specifically a jump point in a jump gate. Now, I'm well aware that what is said isn't aways what is meant.
Regardless, as it is currently, Early EA, an already powerful list, will be fielding nothing but Hermes and just bombing the hell out of everything in sight
Also rather than just activating a jump gate and then opening your point which you know the timing you need both the the ability to detect and / or predict when and where the enemy jump pint is occuring .
Just watched an episode where invanova is warned not to get too close to a jp to hypersapce as may be caught in the wash.
also need to be clear what happens to ships in hyperspace when this occurs if they are opening a JP into real space - or indeed JP bombing.
Just watched an episode where invanova is warned not to get too close to a jp to hypersapce as may be caught in the wash.
also need to be clear what happens to ships in hyperspace when this occurs if they are opening a JP into real space - or indeed JP bombing.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
l33tpenguin said:
Indeed you are, and as I said earlier, they had to use a JP to do it, as there was no other way they could form 2 jump points.
I'm not saying you can use a JP in a JP to do the same as Sheridan did, we never see it on screen, but it seems reasonable to me that you could.
LBH
