EA Squadron Names

[stringvest]

It's a slow day at work today, so I've decided to knock up some printed labels for my fighter bases and thinking of using some US naval insignia to differentiate squadrons.

http://www.military-graphics.com/navy_squadrons_2.html

My question is, how are B5 squadrons represented in terms of numbers and flights?

Is it 6 ships per 'TV' squadron represented as one game flight? If so, would each flight have their own insignia or would several flights share the same?

I realise each fighter has it's own unique 'nose art' (I had thought about printing a load of scantly clad 50's type girls on transparent decal paper, but think this would be taking it a step too far).

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

 

[l33tpenguin]

It's a slow day at work today, so I've decided to knock up some printed labels for my fighter bases and thinking of using some US naval insignia to differentiate squadrons.

http://www.military-graphics.com/navy_squadrons_2.html

My question is, how are B5 squadrons represented in terms of numbers and flights?

Is it 6 ships per 'TV' squadron represented as one game flight? If so, would each flight have their own insignia or would several flights share the same?

I realise each fighter has it's own unique 'nose art' (I had thought about printing a load of scantly clad 50's type girls on transparent decal paper, but think this would be taking it a step too far).

Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?

I would actually highly encourage looking at WWII type nose art, a lot of it 'pin up' style women. If nothing else, you could treat it as an homage to those who fought and died during that conflict.

Now, as for the number of units, a 'flight' is a term used similar to 'platoon' or 'battalion' its a rather specific size of military force. The order is (from smallest to largest) 'Flight' 'Squadron' 'Wing'
The flight would be a small number of craft (say, 6 ) that fly under the command of a single commanding officer.
A Squadron would be a number of flights, which can vary, with a ranking officer in command of the entire squadron.
A Wing is composed of several squadrons with a single Wing Commander in charge of all aircraft in the wing.

Each level will typically have its own specific patch or artwork distinguishing it, whether or not it is official. Its really up to you at what level you decide to designate your fighters.

In the real would, the actual number of craft assigned to a unit is highly dependent on funding.

A good break up would be 6 fighters to a flight, 4 to 6 flights to a squadron and from 6 to upwards of 10 squadrons to a wing.

The fighter complement of a Poseidon-class carrier would more than likely be considered a full wing, all under the command of a single wing commander.

Here are some sites with extensive nose art and squadron insignia artwork.
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org4-19.htm
http://www.usafpatches.com/links.shtml
http://www.acepilots.com/planes/nose_art.html

 

[stringvest]

Thank you, that was precisely the info I was looking for. Especially the number break downs of organisation, although I realise this is not necessarily how it works in real world practice.

So I will go with 4-6 flights per squadron.

A further question. How would each flight be designated?

Eg. A,B,C,D etc flight of the 125th Attack Squadron?

I'd really like to have a crack at some nose art, (there's a pun in there somewhere), the problem is, is finding isolated images for 144 fighters in this batch, which is only half of what I have. I did have a load of jpegs on white once upon a time, but not that many. I suppose you can also use other designs, like shield patterns etc.

The other issue is whether you'd actually see them on the wings, although I think it's possible.

 

[AdrianH]

Starfury pilots aren't all American males. Use British, German, Russian, Japanese, anyone's nose art as sources. Also use simple geometric patterns, e.g. Sinclair's red chevrons; these would be easy to draw and would show up better on such small models.

As I recall from the show, squadrons were designated by Greek letters; Delta and Zeta squadrons featured often. Individual fighters were designated by squadron and number, e.g. Delta 7. I don't recall flight designations, but A, B, C seems reasonable.

As another source for organisation, RAF squadrons tend to be 12-16 fighters, divided into 2 or 3 flights; this would tie in well with a B5 squadron of 2-3 flights of 6 Starfuries. Babylon 5 itself then has 6 squadrons of 2 flights each (ACTA gives it 12 flights total), Zeta being the 6th letter of the Greek alphabet.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Flights, squadrons and wings can all be designated by greek letters (alpha, beta, gamma) or numbers. You can even designate the 'type' of squadron, like the 219th Bomber Squadron or the 13 Attack Squadron. Squadrons also, typically, have 'nicknames' that they refer to themselves as, like 'The Mighty Griffins'
A decent list of USAF squadrons, with designations as well as some of their nick names is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Air_Force_squadrons
For USN squadron designations:
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/squades.htm

 

[stringvest]

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather do international squadron logos, it's just that I can't find any. All the RAF insignia have crowns on them, which may look cool I guess, but just seem wrong for the EA setting.

If you can locate any clip art, post a link and I'll stick them on the PDF sheet which I'll post here when finished.

This is a work in progress. Thanks to Schwerpunkt for the idea and link to http://www.spacepictures.org/

I've also grabbed a bucket load of bomber birds which I'll also size up and stick on a separate PDF.

 

[stringvest]

Flights, squadrons and wings can all be designated by greek letters (alpha, beta, gamma) or numbers. You can even designate the 'type' of squadron, like the 219th Bomber Squadron or the 13 Attack Squadron. Squadrons also, typically, have 'nicknames' that they refer to themselves as, like 'The Mighty Griffins'
A decent list of USAF squadrons, with designations as well as some of their nick names is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Air_Force_squadrons
For USN squadron designations:
http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/squades.htm

Thanks, I found the Wiki page last night. Especially useful for the .png cut out badges.

 

[AdrianH]

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather do international squadron logos, it's just that I can't find any. All the RAF insignia have crowns on them, which may look cool I guess, but just seem wrong for the EA setting.

Those are formal squadron insignia. My impression of the wing art in B5 was that it was individual, not squadron. So some pilots might have old Earth squadron badges because their great-great-grandfather flew with that squadron, but I don't think Starfury squadrons have wing art used by the whole unit. Look for individual nose and tail art rather than (or as well as) squadron logos; that goes for USAF as well as RAF.

Besides, a formal 21st century RAF squadron badge might have the surrounding laurel and crown, but there's nothing stopping you from borrowing the central image itself. For example, take 617 Squadron's current crest, use just the central image, and apply it to a fighter whose pilot is either descended from one of the Dambusters or who enjoyed watching the film.

Finally, even on 21st century RAF aircraft, the nose and tail squadron markings don't always include the formal crown and wreath. Take a look at this Tornado F3; there's the squadron logo on the tail, and the lightning flash on the nose, giving you two Starfury wing markings for the price of one.

 

[stringvest]

Cheers for that. Isolating those should be reasonably easy.

The squadron logo was to be printed on self adhesive round label sheets, to be used as for the base of the flight, not for the actual model fighter. For the 'nose art' I'll knock up a load of cartoons and pin up girls to be printed on transparent decal paper. The fighters are pretty much grey/white, so will be able to get away from not using an Alps Printer, and having to print white ink.

 

[stringvest]

An update with where I'm at with this.

First 10 squadrons done. Artwork for sharks teeth on Thunderbolts. Decided pin-ups for tops of fighters was a no go-er, too small to see anything, maybe true of sharks teeth.

Anyway....

 

[stringvest]

Close ups.

 

[lastbesthope]

What does the Russian motto mean?

LBH

 

[stringvest]

It was a Google translation of "With vodka we fly". Some of those are made up, some aren't. Just working things out at the moment. Like whether it's all a waste of time LOL.

Work in progress with some test shots. Still working out how to paint all the fighters without losing the will to live.

The airbrush paint pot top left is what I used to cut the magnetic disks out with a hammer. The steel rule gives a good idea on how well they stick. The dice is there to show how it would fit between the posts of a flight to show losses in other game systems.

I had a choice between 19mm and 25mm disks on the printed paper, and as the plastic counters were 25mm with a beveled edge, I didn't want to get involved with trimming or dealing with wrinkled edges, so went with 19mm.

I'm still working out the most efficient way of painting 150 which is just half of what I have, to try and get to this sort of standard.

Anyway, I suppose the first sign of madness is talking to yourself on an internet forum LOL.

 

[l33tpenguin]

I'm more than likely going to print off itty bitty little insignias on decal paper.

Then I just paint all my 400+ star furies grey, cut the decals with a hole punch and apply them

 

[AdrianH]

Nice work!

Those squadron crests look very similar in style to RAF ones, with the EA insignia replacing the crown and a more stylised wreath. You can find a whole lot more here:
http://www.rafweb.org/Org-index.htm#Squadrons

A few German insignia can be found here:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgjg.htm
(The JG27 one is asking to be modified with Starfury silhouettes replacing the fighters. )

I haven't been able to find similar sources of insignia for other nations - sorry!

 

[stringvest]

Thanks Adrian, yes I did base them on the RAF crest, I thought it would sort of unify them a little. That German link is also useful. Might dump the motto and just stick with the names. The major issue has been to get these to print centrally onto the labels, even with the bleed around the edges, they always drift a little.

Penguin, I'd recommend doing your print in 3mm squares rather than trying to line stuff up over a hole punch. Then use a scalpel and steel ruler to cut strips of them, then one cut to separate them off that strip.

I've figured the largest area you'll be able to get on top of a fighter is just 3mm, maybe 4mm at a push with a little trimming of the edges. You'll also have to file down the tops to get a flat surface and probably have to use decal fix to get them to wrap around the corners of the hull. Maybe 4mm by 3mm could work, but seriously, I doubt you'll be able to make out what's visually there.

I've settled on using 0.1mm micro pens to draw geometric lines on top to individualise each, which doesn't take much effort to do. It's also quite easy to paint flashes of colour to get even more variety.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Yeah, I'm still working out the logistics of how I'm going to do mine. After seeing your flight insignias, I'm really tempted to do the same! Yours look beautiful. As for itty bitty decals on the tops of the furies, yes, I don't expect to make super detailed little decales, but I'm not really good at painting small details (my hands aren't very steady ) so I figure decals would be easier for me to get fighters that looked the same without driving me *insane*

 

[stringvest]

Well once I've set on what I'm doing, I'll post up a link for people to download a copy of the PDF.

As for top art, I've just printed this lot off on transparent decal paper, and sprayed fixer over it. I'll give them a test, along with the sharks teeth, to see how they work tomorrow.