EA omicron light cruiser and vorlon frigate

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Yeah well you can get 2 transports for the smallest Shadow ship (scout) and 3 Vorlon fighters for every 2 Shadow Fighter - mad really especially as the Shadow fighters are sooooo dire!

Apparently there are good in a horde but you can't afford it and if you did they would still probably be out numbered! :roll:

Ah well I just love the Shadows too much

Really? :shock:

Let me ask you: in the game, could a Vorlon transport (or destroyer, whatever) possibly kill a battlecrab with a single shot? (Ambush, perfect positioning, God roll included)

If the answer is yes, well the good news is they got some things right. Bad news, they are prejudiced, big time, against Shadows.

 

[Da Boss]

hmm transport - no, amlost certianly

Destroyer - hmm difficult at best -now seen a good few 15 dice hits from my Vorlon playing freind - even on 6 dice (hell I have seen him get 8-10 hits from a 2 dice beam (several in one game) and 6 hits from a 1 dice fighter beam)

say a really good hit - 12 hits - thats 24 damage - the shields block 10 and 14 get through - if he gets a criticals with damage with the 7 hits that get through thats a pinned Shadow ship and he gets to fire again next round without it moving / firing. It s a extreme case and if he got a good critical he could kill it on the fist turn - 6,- ctiticals or two.

Its just possible but very unlikely. It just as likely the Destoyers beam will just take down the shields..........

I don't think the powers that be are anti-Shadows - just not giving them their full due - Especially when a Extra Vorlon Ship is announced and no Shadow ship to match their enemy!

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Could always argue the Vorlon transport in "interludes an examinations" was lucky as hell... :lol:

I'm more excited about the Omicron actually. Hope they come up with a good hull design, a worthy descendant of the Hyperion.

 

[Ripple]

The transport in interludes seems to be the inspiration for the destroyer (a much more expensive ship than the transport). The original distinction was the open petals vs closed. Though some folks put it down to destroyers red, transports yellow debate.

Ripple

 

[Shadow Queen]

dont forget the nukes the death cloud carrys

 

[Either/Or]

Biggest problem with hyperion in crusade is that everything else is hull 6 so the hyperions get jumped fast....though they do better in big games...Id like to see a hull 6 raid choice to match the rest of the crusade stuff...

as for looks, I use a delphhi with extra turrets from a marathon/warlock added as my hyperion--makes for a much better visual match

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

The transport in interludes seems to be the inspiration for the destroyer (a much more expensive ship than the transport). The original distinction was the open petals vs closed. Though some folks put it down to destroyers red, transports yellow debate.

Ripple

That's how we rationalize things (my, aren't we good at it 8) ). But the scene was originally meant to show how immensely powerful the Vorlons actually are.

 

[greenboy]

l always thought it would be interesting to buy turns for the shadows rather that ships for a battle

from the show i always thought that the shadows were to the vorlons what the minbari are to the shadows

 

[Ripple]

I completely disagree. We only see the Vorlons take the shadows out once easily and that is during an ambush. I can't imagine they are that much more powerful or there would never have been a war. The Vorlons would have simply destroyed the shadows. They are suppsed to be two sides of the same coin.

Ripple

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

I completely disagree. We only see the Vorlons take the shadows out once easily and that is during an ambush. I can't imagine they are that much more powerful or there would never have been a war. The Vorlons would have simply destroyed the shadows. They are suppsed to be two sides of the same coin.

Ripple

I said "immensely powerful", not "immensely superior". :wink:

I actually remember reading that Vorlons ships are superior in quality, and Shadows in quantity though. Alas, forgot where.

In relation to the game, that's why I asked DaBoss if a transport/
destroyer could possibly take out a battlecrab in a single shot, factoring in Godly luck and perfect positioning.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The point wasn't to destroy the other. The point was to have the children love you and have the other faction know that the children loved you over them. Destroying the Shadows would have caused the Vorlons to lose by default.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Very true Neko. "You've had the technology to destroy Z'Ha'Dum all along" said Sheridan. I guess the same could be said for the Shadows and their Death Clouds.

But IMHO it would have been a war to destroy if they weren't so evenly matched (with both sides knowing it). Kinda like the Cold War.

To be honest I'm sketchy about their "real" history, since I haven't read the complete "War of The Ancients".

 

[nekomata fuyu]

If anything, what annoys me is the ISA.
"We refuse to choose between the Shadows and Vorlons! (Well, other than the fact that we'll promote the use of Vorlon tech, and restrict/ban the use of Shadow tech...)"

I do wonder if such hypocrasy was intended by JMS, or if it's just something that slipped in their accidently.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

If anything, what annoys me is the ISA.
"We refuse to choose between the Shadows and Vorlons! (Well, other than the fact that we'll promote the use of Vorlon tech, and restrict/ban the use of Shadow tech...)"

I do wonder if such hypocrasy was intended by JMS, or if it's just something that slipped in their accidently.

Just for fun, I'm playing lawyer for ISA 8)
I can imagine several reasons:
1. For convenience? They do cancel each other out, right? with vorlon technology more readily available, its hard to say no.

2. Culture bias of most races will still favor Vorlons. Maybe it's rather hypocritical, but it's something that we can't discard right away. Besides, EA use shadowtech and is still a member of the alliance right?

3. Minbari are disciples of the Vorlon. They are the meanest race in the Known Space after the 1st 1s left. And... they are a major shareholder!What can we do?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[locarno24]

But, I think we've all seen that a Vorlon transport can shred a Battlecrab to pieces in the show (okay, maybe a small one). But the Shadows exist in far superior number.

As noted - in game terms that was probably a destroyer....
Nonetheless, it's still highly improbably; an average volley from a Destroyer's gun should overwhelm a Shadow Ship's ability to dissapate energy (shields) and actually do a bit of damage to the hull. But a 'bit' is limited in the extreme. To kill a ship in one turn would require something in the order of 29-30 hits off the beam, given average rolls.

Given the scene in question, though, it looks more like the shadow ship is hit, pinned by the beam briefly, and takes a sustained volley of fire.

Bear in mind, as with all ship-to-ship engagements, that the relative power of warships varies as dictated by the needs of the plot.

I actually remember reading that Vorlons ships are superior in quality, and Shadows in quantity though. Alas, forgot where.

No idea. The shadows are definitely the older of the two races, though.

I always thought it would be interesting to buy turns for the shadows rather that ships for a battle

Don't quite follow. Care to expand on the comment?

If anything, what annoys me is the ISA.
"We refuse to choose between the Shadows and Vorlons! (Well, other than the fact that we'll promote the use of Vorlon tech, and restrict/ban the use of Shadow tech...)"

Two reasons one good, one not so good but probably more important:

1) There is a slight moral argument in favour of Vorlon hardware; Shadowtech tends to be more invasive; requiring surgical and biochemical modification of users, and in extreme cases permanent bonding of sentient beings into the ships.

2) The IA already has a good grounding in Vorlon Technology (based on the principles given to them by the Vorlons themselves)...so by preventing anyone researching Shadow technology, they maintain a commanding lead over any possible rival. Equally hypocritical, but more expected from politicians.

 

[CheesyRobMan]

Bear in mind also that if it's the scene I'm thinking of, the Destroyer finishes off the Battlecrab by ramming it at high speed...

 

[Da Boss]

I also got the impression that the Shadows and Vorlons had fought wars before - "in ancient times" - def as it is written in Darkness and Light.

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Shadowtech tends to be more invasive; requiring surgical and biochemical modification of users, and in extreme cases permanent bonding of sentient beings into the ships.

Well, we can't really say it's a bad thing. From the Shadow point of view, it promotes evolution. From my point of view: no thanks, I like my life the way it is. 8)

No idea. The shadows are definitely the older of the two races, though.

Come to think of it, what the Vorlon displayed was "superior firepower"... Shadows definitely have the more efficient way of entering hyperspace.
I read it quite a while back. The Kirishiac Lords could have kicked their collective asses in a fight, though :lol: .

Is there an online version of War of The Ancients?

 

[Ripple]

Not sure,

In the orginal AoG fluff there was a war with the Kirishiac lords, and the Lords lost. The lords are the youngest of the ancient races, and the first to not transcend to an energy state. That war led to the idea that the old races wouldn't fight each other again.

Ripple

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Yeah, I recall they were "the last of the true first ones". Apparently also the most brutal and warlike (one of the reasons they don't ascend), from what I gathered from some forums. But they were no match for the Walkers' superior technology. Apparently there's more to it than big guns :lol:

For those who really read War of The Ancients, could someone shed light on why the Shadows have a hibernation cycle? It has always been a question for me. Is it part of the deal with the Vorlons, or is it just their natural way?