EA Fact Book: Country canon?

Nerroth

Mongoose
Hi,

This has been something which was a little... noticeable to me the first time I looked at the country info (on Earth itself) in the EA book, I was wondering whether the following idea was something which had been somehow directly stated or indirectly inferred from any canon B5 source material, or an invention by the author of the fact book, namely that of Ireland, erm, returning to the United Kingdom - and losing any reference to the Irish language as a potential character trait.

Sadly, the part about not mentioning Irish as a language spoken by 23rd Century Irish humans is not something the current parlous state of the language could easily answer to.

However, the part about re-joining the UK is one which, at the risk of sounding like someone speaking from a biased viewpoint, is rather less simple to envisage.

Rather, given our links to the European Union, our adoption of the euro as our currency, the generally more widespread sense of European identity than seen in the UK, not to mention the rather... notable reaction many in Ireland would have to giving up on our republic to hand over soverignty to an unelected monarchy, the one of our former colonial masters no less, I would seriously doubt that Ireland would throw its lot in with the UK instead of the EU in the future - a doubt which would be put to the test should the UK ever pack its bags and leave the European Union.

While it's stated that Canada successfully avoided becoming absorbed by the United States within the North American Federation, I am surprised that Ireland is given rather less success - but then, before the ecenomic upturn of the 1990s and beyond, we were regularly written off anyway, I should perhaps not be too surprised...

(Even when we were a basket case economically, we would never have gone back to the UK)

Could anyone offer an explanation for the take on Ireland in the EA book?

Gary
 
Does seem highly unlikely considering history and stubbornness.(is that spelt right)

Your post is a godsend Gary, two characters in our game are from Ireland and we've been scrabbling around for common expressions/words and what they mean. (Not the stupid ones in American films) I've resorted to raiding Andrew M Greeley books.

I can't remember which one of his books had the meaning of a lot of the words and phrases at the back, all I can remmber is that he stated that he had to "clean up" the language a bit beacause of the amount of swear words in common use.

Please could you send any you can to my email, assuming you can access it. (I have no idea how you access any of the ones listed here. I really would like to know what some of them mean and if they are real terms. For example, what the heck is a"nine fingered shitehawk" ? Don't post it here if it's too rude.
 
I suspect the answer is that a lot can change in 200 years.

I've not heard much about it for a while, but what's happened to the "Council of the Isles" idea that was floating around a few years back? That pretty much would be a start of the process... Basically, as I recall, it was essentially a talking shop for the devolved governments of the UK and Eire.

It may well be that the "price" of finally eliminating sectarian terrorism in Ireland would be some form of political union between the north and south, essentially with Eire as an "associate" member of the UK, keeping an elected head of state but for the most part having a slightly higher level of autonomy than Scotland currently does. It would require major changes to the UK parliament (notably completely reforming/abolishing the Lords to become an elected second chamber).
 
I'm sure that it is not B5 canon - although LBH will be abgle to confirm. A lot of the country stuff in the EA book offended people because of the stereotyping - so ignore what you don't like.

Personally I thought it was all rather daft - Welsh people are good pilots :roll:
 
And rewrite it to fit in with your game. It is always up to the GM how he wants his game world. And if he wants he can rewrite whatever he needs too. :)
 
Greg Smith said:
Personally I thought it was all rather daft - Welsh people are good pilots :roll:

Not quite, Welsh people can be good pilots. The reason is well explained in the description (a future reliance on air transport), if not founded in reality (or at least, it should equally apply to Scotland...).
 
the council of the isles, yeah that was never going to happen.

The only thing that exists to that is the Cross border bodies(there are six or seven and tend to be invloved in things that invlove both sides of the North-south Border (example being the Waterways body))

as for the idea of this easing Sectarnism, is while possibly true, is unlikely to actually succeed as certain Factions would see it as a betrayal of the Republic (the last time one faction thought there had been a betrayal of the the Republic their was a Civil war.)

Ireland is right now closer to Brussels than to London and i can't see that changing to much.....

As for a "nine Fingered ShiteHawk" i must admit to have NEVER hearing that one ;)
 
Greg Smith said:
I'm sure that it is not B5 canon - although LBH will be abgle to confirm. A lot of the country stuff in the EA book offended people because of the stereotyping - so ignore what you don't like.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Greg. I admit to not having read all (or even any) of the RPG supplements in any depth so I am not able to give a personal view of their canonical (or not) status. But AFAIK Mongoose have to run everything through Mongoose, JMS and sometimes Fiona Avery as well. So it is safe to assume it is official and fairly canon on that basis.

And like Greg and Aramanthus say, what you don't like, don't use.

LBH
 
As regards Hiberno-English, there's a Wikipedia article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno-english which may help, as well as a Dictionary of Hiberno-English, as seen at http://www.gillmacmillan.ie/Ecom/Library3.nsf/0/D461B6285554997080256EC10039A752?OpenDocument which may be of interest.

That phrase about the mutated Drazi waste transport is most likely another in a long list of made-up rubbish about us - please, please don't base your ideas on our variant of English on any novel author, even if he or she is Irish! Trust me on this.

And trust me on this as well: what frobisher suggested about the idea of the Irish electorate handing itself over to the UK in order to end sectarian violence is never going to happen, not least because it would never solve the issue at any rate.

The idea of having Ireland leave the EU and rejoin the UK in the Earth Alliance is not one which is easily justifiable - in my opinion, of course - and I wish that this could be marked down as a computer error in the EA datanet, followed by an apology in EarthDome to the Irish delegation within the European Union, as well as a revision to the entry relating to Ireland in a future revision of the EA book, should one ever be forthcoming.

But then, that would probably have to be cleared by JMS, so I'd have to convince him that Ireland should remain as an EU member state in the 23rd century...

Gary
 
I stand be my previous post. :) The world you run as a GM is yours taylor it to fit you and your groups needs! Make it acceptable to you and yours. Take that step. Trust me you'll like it! :D
 
Just remeber, when you're GMing B5, you're not the GAmes Master you're the GREAT MAKER. All things are under your control, even the fabric of reality itself.

LBH
 
Nerroth said:
And trust me on this as well: what frobisher suggested about the idea of the Irish electorate handing itself over to the UK in order to end sectarian violence is never going to happen, not least because it would never solve the issue at any rate.

I never said it would solve it, merely eliminate it (just think of it as an opportunity for plot hooks as the dissatisfied parties regroup in the following years ;) ). There is a strong emphasis, in the book, on how terrorism shaped the world in the 21st century.

But the thing you have to bear in mind is it's never going to happen as things stand now, and yes, I can't see it happening anytime soon as things stand. Change the parameters on the "simulation" and it could head that way.

What if something in the EU went a direction the Republic really wasn't keen on, something the Irish people could not put up with? Perhaps an ultimatum for either a total surrender of sovereignty (in effect) or be backed off to the fringes of he EU politically. Whatever... If Eire had to withdraw from the EU, what she would need to do is align herself politically and economically with someone. Now, almost certainly, the UK would back out of the EU before Eire, and the Republic is in a situation (like South Africa) that it could (re)join the Commonwealth as a former subject nation of the UK. That gets you into a wider trade club. And as it stands a goodly percentage of Irish trade is with the UK, and this might well be a first step down the path to the future given in the EA Fact Book.

That said, I really can't see anything coming that would cause the Republic to part ways with the EU (actually I can't see anything forcing the UK out, despite what the popular press in the UK would have us believe.

For the future to be that shape, we'd need some unlikely and fantastic events to occur, and that's pretty much what B5 is all about :)

But then again, if you can't make it fly in a campaign, change it (just as I'll be ignoring large chunks of certain books that don't gel with my idea of the B5 universe...)
 
frobisher said:
That said, I really can't see anything coming that would cause the Republic to part ways with the EU (actually I can't see anything forcing the UK out, despite what the popular press in the UK would have us believe.

In A:2089, the UK parts ways from the European Federation and the war of Independence starts. Take a look at it sometime if you can.

LBH
 
lastbesthope said:
In A:2089, the UK parts ways from the European Federation and the war of Independence starts. Take a look at it sometime if you can.

But then I'd have to buy it... Which isn't going to happen (it's not a background I know from elsewhere IYSWIM).
 
I remember reading that in there LBH. About the UK going their own direction from the rest of the EU. It is an interesting game. Someday I have to collect it.
 
For me that day will be the SST night. (The day will be a night, and "that place is this place" whilst I'm at it :lol: )

I picked up my e-bay package from the sorting office today. The A:2089 supplements Warmachines of 2089 and Earth 2089. COol bit is that the e-bay seller was Ian Sturrock himself. Now I just need Armoured Companies, High Frontier, Soldier's Companion and Kazakhstan : Behind Enemy Lines to complete the set. Roll on the 12th.

I just really like the game background, and the Shotgun Mike novel is a brilliant read.

LBH
 
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