Drakh Tactics
- Thread starter verdantgreen
- Start date
I never post, mostly just troll the boards but your tactics guide for the Drakh is great. You get my vote for man of the year. That being said "The Keeper" duty isn't broken unless your campaign is just two people. The ones I have taken part in are 4 to 5 people and it just keeps them guessing as to which one of them I used it on and which ship. Very much in character and makes the other people think. Also, it is a very difficult duty to roll. Keep up the great work man.
Played last night, with the result: my larger ships (I had a Mothership, 2 Light Cruisers, 2 Light Cruisers, 2 Fast Destroyers, 16 Light Raiders, and 24 Heavy Raiders) got pounded by the League, who rolled forward, concentrated the hell out of one ship per side of the board, and then moved on to the next. It wasn't until the Raiders got within ten inches that things started happening, and they took a third of the League fleet into crippled, useless with no weaons, or dead in a turn. i love those little guys.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Sorry, everyone, been ill with a rather unpleasant cold. I'd try to get my next entries up this weekend. I also want to include a couple of tactical examples from some of my previous tourney and social games that show what has worked -- and what has not. It's not like all my moves have been gems, y'know.
After all, chess books on strategic openings like the Nimzo-indian don't just describe the theory, but also how that enters into the middlegame and ending....
After all, chess books on strategic openings like the Nimzo-indian don't just describe the theory, but also how that enters into the middlegame and ending....
CZuschlag
Mongoose
No, not dying -- My Word doc version is up to 13 pages. It's just that I've spent WAY too much time analyzing the Beam Team matchup with Sulust and Prefect comparisons. I've written items on the Raid ships, done the Carrier, working on the Cruiser, haven't touched the Mothership or Raider tactics at which I'm best ....
I also, as I've mentioned, want to include a few annotated games from my tourney past that show me with good ideas, and bad ones, from games past.... but assembling the images is going to be work.
I also, as I've mentioned, want to include a few annotated games from my tourney past that show me with good ideas, and bad ones, from games past.... but assembling the images is going to be work.
verdantgreen
Mongoose
Excellent. This thread is better than many company's paid-for supplements 
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Raid level: Light Cruiser, Fast Destroyer.
Light Cruiser: One of the truly vile ships in the game. If more people flew it, more people would hate it. The ship is defensively challenged – the GEG 2 tries to cancel out a set of Hull, Damage, and Crew that the Skirmish-level Thentus and Milani almost match. The difference is the vicious fire effect. Consider the average, un-CAFed output of the total front batteries against Hulls 5 and 6 (no interceptors, of course):
Hull 5> 13.70:15.08 Hull 6> 8.60:9.46
Wow! That’s impressive! And, as the fire arc is F, there will indeed by CAF opportunities to be had. There will even be a few critical effects (I added in the critical damage already) that Precise on the Neutron Cannon will give you. Unlike most of the rest of the Drakh fleet, the range is average for the class as well, a surprising benefit.
As good as that is, it gets better. It is AJP-capable, so it is the cheapest ship you own that can open a jump point, and can emerge from such a jump point, presumably on a flank (maximizing the use of its GEG!) and fire immediately. This is the picture of best deployment for this ship, but you need a lot of things to make this right, not the least of which are rights to be in hyperspace in the first place.
It also has many similar flight characteristics to the Heavy Raider – 2 45’s, and 8” move vs. 10”. Why does this matter? Pretty directly, it allows the Light Cruiser to provide with its pulse cannons in all directions a credible point defense screen for anti-fighter work. The GEG does most of the rest. It is the cheapest ship in your fleet to do so. That last statement is a serious problem in the fleet, as a Light Cruiser is a heavy investment for the job. At least this can solve it, for the Heavy Raiders. (For the Light Raiders, sadly, there is no serious means of dealing with this threat).
The ship’s limitations are worth bringing up, however. Remember that Thentus comparison I made earlier? It’s instructive.
The Thentus has roughly half of your firepower; the extra die of beam and precise count for a lot. With two Thentus, the total firepower is fairly comparable (if you include the Burst Beam to offset the issues of boresight). However, each Thentus is almost the same size as you:
2xThentus: 2x(24:28), Hull 5
Light Cruiser: 28:28, Hull 5
Same speed, same turns, same firepower, twice the damage -- the Thentus looks far superior. And, if you just fly this ship like a Sulust, you'll find that the Narn is.
The message here is unmistakable: You Cannot Win With Firepower Alone. You must maximize the one thing I didn't include -- your GEG. It all comes back to that. The GEG is best at deflecting point defenses, and mixing it up. You must do this, as well as making use of your other properties when they are afforded you, namely, AJP.
This ship’s role is unquestionably Hunter-Killer. It is also a major target for opposing fleets due to its ferocity. It is definitely a killable target, and it particularly needs to be aware of some of the bad Beam systems that are prevalent on ships of Raid priority and higher. The Light Cruiser’s answers to these problems are to blow them out of space, a job it is perfectly capable of completing, and engaging in a furball to avoid heavy front weapon systems, just like every other Drakh ship in space. It is occasionally suitable as a leaders of Heavy Raiders, supplying Jump Points for them to launch their attack runs on enemy fleets from hyperspace and into a flank without exposing them to too much fire on the approach turn; also giving anti-fighter point defense as a long-term solution to Raiders’ prevalent fighter issues.
Grade: A-. I keep going back and forth. Is it hardy enough to get an A-? Probably, but I haven’t flown it the 25+ times yet that I’d need to really establish this feel.
Fast Destroyer: This ship takes the above challenge even further, and asks a very tough question – how valuable is GEG 3?
The quick answer is, not enough to buy one of these.
This is a ship searching for a role, and it can’t find one. If the idea is to depend on the GEG as a tank-like system that, when used brilliantly, defects the vast majority of firepower away, but when tasked to fulfill that mission, it fails miserably. We know Hull 4 is a penalty, and you can expect to give that up for another point of GEG, but giving up Crew and Damage as well really hurts. And, really, the brutal fact is that there isn’t a single role out there that the CL can’t do better. And, in the end, when you do accumulate 19 damage on this ship, the spectre of losing your GEG on crippling is dark and ominous. In the end ship is far too fragile, especially for a Raid-level vessel that, curiously enough, has no answer to fightercraft trolling for criticals. You’d at least expect that much from a Raid ship. The result is unacceptable.
Grade: D.
Battle-level: Carrier, Cruiser.
Carrier: People hate this ship, and I don’t get why. It’s just a spectacularly specialized ship.
This ship has exactly one role in standard play, at Skirmish-level in a Raider fleet. At Skirmish level, the GEG of 3 will deflect most ship’s attacks, even taking on average only 10.8:10.8 average from the worst skirmish ship out there considering its Hull of 4, the Ka’Tan (both beam systems, no point defense). If it gets to CAF in exchange, it’ll do 9.84:10.25 back – one on one, the Carrier will do just fine.
And, oh, by the way -- it gets 4 raiders as well. I often load these out with 2 Light Raiders and 2 Heavy Raiders.
EDIT: After a lot of heavy thought when writing this up, I'm coming to the conclusion that at 5-Skirmish and above, where you tend to buy Scouts, you should run 1 Light Raider and 3 Heavies. I think I've always gotten this wrong. I haven't played the new configuration, so I can't prove it, but I'd love input on this.
The reason why the ship works at this point is because I’ve selected a very specific fight for it to engage in. This is designed to manage its limitations, which are many. The damage capacity of 48 and Hull of 4 at Battle Level make it mincemeat against most beam ships, and there are a lot of them today. Ships with heavy beam arrays – 4 dice or more – will carve large holes in this craft. With a Hull of 4, it doesn’t tend to matter whether or not they CAF to do it. Between this and its atrocious launch rate, it requires the first of your Raider Fleet Commandments™:
1. Thou Shalt Keep Thy Motherships Behind Terrain Until Endgame
It’s going to take 3 turns to barf out your Raiders, so just accept that, find some terrain, turtle down and stay out of fighting until you’re done. No terrain? Don’t field the Carrier, ever. Getting that terrain in the first place should be a major objective; which puts a small premium on winning the setup initiative die roll. Which, of course, suggests the Second Commandment:
2. Thou Shalt Not Disdain Thy Scouts
There’s no sense going in half-assed, and we’re going small, so a few should go really small. The Raider fleet tactics part explains this in detail, but the concept in general is – win initiative, move 2 or so scouts, -- out on the fringes! -- move the one or two ridiculously maneuverable Light Raiders to a lurking position that your opponents have to go through contortions to set up shots on, move the Carrier to safety (or just all stop) and … well … your opponent has moved 5(1 LR) or 6(2 LR) ships already, and you haven’t touched your Heavy Raiders/Firepower yet. Finesse them into a position that allows you to close but is survivable, and set up your attack run. This is to be the third commandment:
3. Never Shalt Thou Rush
The ISA avoid firepower by overrunning it. Your Heavy Raiders, the real meat of your fleet, can’t do that – they’re only 2/45, speed 10. But, they can use your spectacular number of useful initiative sinks to make your opponent move everything, giving your Heavy Raiders best choice of minimum damage real estate. This ensures that they survive to target.
This makes Raider fleets uber-patient. In the most common fights, like Call to Arms (if you have terrain), Space Superiority, Carrier Duel, and Annihilation, Lurk. Get in position. Outflank. Take your time. Hide your Carriers, if you can. The longer the fight goes without trading shots, the more likely you’re making progress in.
At Skirmish-5 level and with any terrain at all, this is NAS-TY. Boresight fleets have no prayer; there’s nothing to boresight on. A Narn Bat Squad has moved every ship and has boresighted absolutely nothing, short of hitting a Come About on an isolated Light Raider. Against Ka’Tans, the Heavy Raiders can walk in unopposed to the Pulse Weaponry, which will proceed to probably do 1:1 per ship. The Ka’Toc’s Mag Guns will probably end up never firing. Grim diagnosis for Louisville Slugger! For the Drazi, it’s far worse. Vorlons may never even get to fire unless they form a mutual overlap formation and park --- which the Carrier itself will be happy to shell mercilessly. Eventually, the Raiders will just mug one ship and be done with it.
Even the Minbari are held hostage to this plan – the Light Raiders will be able to outflank at will, and the Minbari can try to use their long-range strikes on the Heavy Raiders with the front guns, probably exactly once (expected fleet, Tinashi, Teshlan or, likely better, Tigara).
Even if you kill the Raiders, then the last spade comes out – the Carrier, against a suitably weakened opponent, crawls out from cover and uses its GEG 3 and 2 Neutron Cannons to finish off any last Skirmish vessels. Against Skirmish ships, the GEG 3 renders almost any firepower moot, and several Raid ships don't have many good answers, either. If you do see a remaining Raid-level Beam boat, you should be Very careful about the decision to engage.
There are counters, but at 5-Skirmish or so, they’re rare. And that fight is exactly why you have the Carrier.
The limitations are great however. You need a Skirmish-level fight (hmm..), terrain, scouts, possibly avoiding certain scenarios (Defending or assaulting a Convoy Duty is a bad idea here, so is defending a Recon Run!). That’s a lot of conditions.
It’s a great ship for its mission. But its mission only.
This ship’s role is the baddest piece of work out there for a straight-up 4-7 Skirmish brawl with terrain. When you get to 4 Raid or so, this ship starts becoming a marginal idea. Otherwise, this ship is a lovely paperweight. That’s a lot of specifics you need to make the ship work. Too bad you can’t buy it for 8 Patrol points.
Grade: D+.
Light Cruiser: One of the truly vile ships in the game. If more people flew it, more people would hate it. The ship is defensively challenged – the GEG 2 tries to cancel out a set of Hull, Damage, and Crew that the Skirmish-level Thentus and Milani almost match. The difference is the vicious fire effect. Consider the average, un-CAFed output of the total front batteries against Hulls 5 and 6 (no interceptors, of course):
Hull 5> 13.70:15.08 Hull 6> 8.60:9.46
Wow! That’s impressive! And, as the fire arc is F, there will indeed by CAF opportunities to be had. There will even be a few critical effects (I added in the critical damage already) that Precise on the Neutron Cannon will give you. Unlike most of the rest of the Drakh fleet, the range is average for the class as well, a surprising benefit.
As good as that is, it gets better. It is AJP-capable, so it is the cheapest ship you own that can open a jump point, and can emerge from such a jump point, presumably on a flank (maximizing the use of its GEG!) and fire immediately. This is the picture of best deployment for this ship, but you need a lot of things to make this right, not the least of which are rights to be in hyperspace in the first place.
It also has many similar flight characteristics to the Heavy Raider – 2 45’s, and 8” move vs. 10”. Why does this matter? Pretty directly, it allows the Light Cruiser to provide with its pulse cannons in all directions a credible point defense screen for anti-fighter work. The GEG does most of the rest. It is the cheapest ship in your fleet to do so. That last statement is a serious problem in the fleet, as a Light Cruiser is a heavy investment for the job. At least this can solve it, for the Heavy Raiders. (For the Light Raiders, sadly, there is no serious means of dealing with this threat).
The ship’s limitations are worth bringing up, however. Remember that Thentus comparison I made earlier? It’s instructive.
The Thentus has roughly half of your firepower; the extra die of beam and precise count for a lot. With two Thentus, the total firepower is fairly comparable (if you include the Burst Beam to offset the issues of boresight). However, each Thentus is almost the same size as you:
2xThentus: 2x(24:28), Hull 5
Light Cruiser: 28:28, Hull 5
Same speed, same turns, same firepower, twice the damage -- the Thentus looks far superior. And, if you just fly this ship like a Sulust, you'll find that the Narn is.
The message here is unmistakable: You Cannot Win With Firepower Alone. You must maximize the one thing I didn't include -- your GEG. It all comes back to that. The GEG is best at deflecting point defenses, and mixing it up. You must do this, as well as making use of your other properties when they are afforded you, namely, AJP.
This ship’s role is unquestionably Hunter-Killer. It is also a major target for opposing fleets due to its ferocity. It is definitely a killable target, and it particularly needs to be aware of some of the bad Beam systems that are prevalent on ships of Raid priority and higher. The Light Cruiser’s answers to these problems are to blow them out of space, a job it is perfectly capable of completing, and engaging in a furball to avoid heavy front weapon systems, just like every other Drakh ship in space. It is occasionally suitable as a leaders of Heavy Raiders, supplying Jump Points for them to launch their attack runs on enemy fleets from hyperspace and into a flank without exposing them to too much fire on the approach turn; also giving anti-fighter point defense as a long-term solution to Raiders’ prevalent fighter issues.
Grade: A-. I keep going back and forth. Is it hardy enough to get an A-? Probably, but I haven’t flown it the 25+ times yet that I’d need to really establish this feel.
Fast Destroyer: This ship takes the above challenge even further, and asks a very tough question – how valuable is GEG 3?
The quick answer is, not enough to buy one of these.
This is a ship searching for a role, and it can’t find one. If the idea is to depend on the GEG as a tank-like system that, when used brilliantly, defects the vast majority of firepower away, but when tasked to fulfill that mission, it fails miserably. We know Hull 4 is a penalty, and you can expect to give that up for another point of GEG, but giving up Crew and Damage as well really hurts. And, really, the brutal fact is that there isn’t a single role out there that the CL can’t do better. And, in the end, when you do accumulate 19 damage on this ship, the spectre of losing your GEG on crippling is dark and ominous. In the end ship is far too fragile, especially for a Raid-level vessel that, curiously enough, has no answer to fightercraft trolling for criticals. You’d at least expect that much from a Raid ship. The result is unacceptable.
Grade: D.
Battle-level: Carrier, Cruiser.
Carrier: People hate this ship, and I don’t get why. It’s just a spectacularly specialized ship.
This ship has exactly one role in standard play, at Skirmish-level in a Raider fleet. At Skirmish level, the GEG of 3 will deflect most ship’s attacks, even taking on average only 10.8:10.8 average from the worst skirmish ship out there considering its Hull of 4, the Ka’Tan (both beam systems, no point defense). If it gets to CAF in exchange, it’ll do 9.84:10.25 back – one on one, the Carrier will do just fine.
And, oh, by the way -- it gets 4 raiders as well. I often load these out with 2 Light Raiders and 2 Heavy Raiders.
EDIT: After a lot of heavy thought when writing this up, I'm coming to the conclusion that at 5-Skirmish and above, where you tend to buy Scouts, you should run 1 Light Raider and 3 Heavies. I think I've always gotten this wrong. I haven't played the new configuration, so I can't prove it, but I'd love input on this.
The reason why the ship works at this point is because I’ve selected a very specific fight for it to engage in. This is designed to manage its limitations, which are many. The damage capacity of 48 and Hull of 4 at Battle Level make it mincemeat against most beam ships, and there are a lot of them today. Ships with heavy beam arrays – 4 dice or more – will carve large holes in this craft. With a Hull of 4, it doesn’t tend to matter whether or not they CAF to do it. Between this and its atrocious launch rate, it requires the first of your Raider Fleet Commandments™:
1. Thou Shalt Keep Thy Motherships Behind Terrain Until Endgame
It’s going to take 3 turns to barf out your Raiders, so just accept that, find some terrain, turtle down and stay out of fighting until you’re done. No terrain? Don’t field the Carrier, ever. Getting that terrain in the first place should be a major objective; which puts a small premium on winning the setup initiative die roll. Which, of course, suggests the Second Commandment:
2. Thou Shalt Not Disdain Thy Scouts
There’s no sense going in half-assed, and we’re going small, so a few should go really small. The Raider fleet tactics part explains this in detail, but the concept in general is – win initiative, move 2 or so scouts, -- out on the fringes! -- move the one or two ridiculously maneuverable Light Raiders to a lurking position that your opponents have to go through contortions to set up shots on, move the Carrier to safety (or just all stop) and … well … your opponent has moved 5(1 LR) or 6(2 LR) ships already, and you haven’t touched your Heavy Raiders/Firepower yet. Finesse them into a position that allows you to close but is survivable, and set up your attack run. This is to be the third commandment:
3. Never Shalt Thou Rush
The ISA avoid firepower by overrunning it. Your Heavy Raiders, the real meat of your fleet, can’t do that – they’re only 2/45, speed 10. But, they can use your spectacular number of useful initiative sinks to make your opponent move everything, giving your Heavy Raiders best choice of minimum damage real estate. This ensures that they survive to target.
This makes Raider fleets uber-patient. In the most common fights, like Call to Arms (if you have terrain), Space Superiority, Carrier Duel, and Annihilation, Lurk. Get in position. Outflank. Take your time. Hide your Carriers, if you can. The longer the fight goes without trading shots, the more likely you’re making progress in.
At Skirmish-5 level and with any terrain at all, this is NAS-TY. Boresight fleets have no prayer; there’s nothing to boresight on. A Narn Bat Squad has moved every ship and has boresighted absolutely nothing, short of hitting a Come About on an isolated Light Raider. Against Ka’Tans, the Heavy Raiders can walk in unopposed to the Pulse Weaponry, which will proceed to probably do 1:1 per ship. The Ka’Toc’s Mag Guns will probably end up never firing. Grim diagnosis for Louisville Slugger! For the Drazi, it’s far worse. Vorlons may never even get to fire unless they form a mutual overlap formation and park --- which the Carrier itself will be happy to shell mercilessly. Eventually, the Raiders will just mug one ship and be done with it.
Even the Minbari are held hostage to this plan – the Light Raiders will be able to outflank at will, and the Minbari can try to use their long-range strikes on the Heavy Raiders with the front guns, probably exactly once (expected fleet, Tinashi, Teshlan or, likely better, Tigara).
Even if you kill the Raiders, then the last spade comes out – the Carrier, against a suitably weakened opponent, crawls out from cover and uses its GEG 3 and 2 Neutron Cannons to finish off any last Skirmish vessels. Against Skirmish ships, the GEG 3 renders almost any firepower moot, and several Raid ships don't have many good answers, either. If you do see a remaining Raid-level Beam boat, you should be Very careful about the decision to engage.
There are counters, but at 5-Skirmish or so, they’re rare. And that fight is exactly why you have the Carrier.
The limitations are great however. You need a Skirmish-level fight (hmm..), terrain, scouts, possibly avoiding certain scenarios (Defending or assaulting a Convoy Duty is a bad idea here, so is defending a Recon Run!). That’s a lot of conditions.
It’s a great ship for its mission. But its mission only.
This ship’s role is the baddest piece of work out there for a straight-up 4-7 Skirmish brawl with terrain. When you get to 4 Raid or so, this ship starts becoming a marginal idea. Otherwise, this ship is a lovely paperweight. That’s a lot of specifics you need to make the ship work. Too bad you can’t buy it for 8 Patrol points.
Grade: D+.
Iron Panda
Mongoose
Thanks for this awesome guide! Just starting out B5 and guides like this provides a wealth of info not only on the Drakh, but also provides an insight on the mechanics of the game.
Just awesome!
Just awesome!
verdantgreen
Mongoose
CZuschlag, this is a great thread. Have you come up with anything else to add lately?
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I've actually decided that I can't detail the thread properly without examples. That's partly why I have gotten into Vassal -- I want to attach log files of games with comments about my moves, good and bad, and where lasting advantages will lie and why. I've been hung up on the Raider Fleet Tactics section because, without pictures, I just can't do it justice. Vassal doesn't just give me pictures, it gives me examples --- I can describe the ideas behind a chess opening, or I can show you the examples and give specific reasoning.
Unfortunately, work has been rough (I have slept at home 6 of the last 14 days or so -- the rest on the office floor), so I haven't had much Vassal time.
Thanks and credit go to Pestilence, who was a Guinea Pig with me for learning the Vassal engine, and to Katadder for all the support he gave me directly, and the ACTA extension in general. Smartly done!
Unfortunately, work has been rough (I have slept at home 6 of the last 14 days or so -- the rest on the office floor), so I haven't had much Vassal time.
Thanks and credit go to Pestilence, who was a Guinea Pig with me for learning the Vassal engine, and to Katadder for all the support he gave me directly, and the ACTA extension in general. Smartly done!
Sulfurdown
Mongoose
Considering the fast destroyer; it involves loss of hull, damage, crew, and alternate fire arcs in exchange for 50% more speed, 2 additional forward Pulse cannon AD and an additional point of GEG when compaired to the light cruiser. Would an additional AD of Hvy Neutron Cannon or the addition of some six inches of range offset these losses?
CZuschlag
Mongoose
If I had to guess the history -- the original idea for what the Fast Destroyer was to do it a good one. It should be a leader for a Raider wave. In so doing, the things that we are looking for are:
-- Can help defend damaged raiders for short periods of time
-- Point defenses against Heavy Fighters and eventual 2e Bombers
-- Firepower suiting a Raid-level ship
-- Can survive two direct Raid beam-ship blasts
-- Can, at minimum, stay with the Heavy Raiders comfortably
-- Doesn't explode over the Heavy Raiders too badly in the event of a catastrophic failure
-- Can provide jump-point insertion
The Heavy Destroyer, unfortunately, missed this mark. Point by point:
-- The ship's survivability is poor. Consider one good shot from a Hyperion (a, granted, slightly overgunned Raid ship, but the GEG will get to go multiple times):
4 SAP beams: 8 hits for 18.9/18.9 --> 16/16 after the GEG (OW!)
While, individually, the next two weapon systems will each fail to overwhelm the GEG, you'll get one crit out of it, thereby bypassing the GEG:
6 Pulse Cannons: 3 Hits
4 Plasma Cannons: 3.55 Hits (AP, TL)
1 Single-damage weapon should Critical (more, if you 4 and then 2 hits, thereby exceeding the GEG itself): 1/1 + Critical (1.6/2.1) = 2.6/3.1
Average (with rounding, granted): 19/20. Crippled and Skeletoned, and if you lose the GEG, the Antifighter system is more than capable of finishing you off.
AIGH! This didn't even use CAF. It could have been worse!
So, it fails to survive. This is a big, bad no-no for a ship, espeically at Raid level. Does it at least do every other job well? Not hardly!
-- Point Defenses against Heavy Fighters and 2e Bombers: No side guns. At all. This is the main weakness the Raiders need help with, and it doesn't provide it. Bad.
-- Don't explode over the raiders: If the GEG 3 fails due to a strike, the rest of the ship will explode nicely, given the Hull of 4, and it (barely) still explodes for 10 dice.
-- Can defend raiders for a short period of time: The best way is by escort cover or maneouver to shield. Given the survivability issue above, I can't see this as a viable option.
It does do the rest -- firepower befiting a Raid ship, check, can keep up with the Heavy Raiders, check. A jump engine is also available, a major check. But, well .... a Light Cruiser can basically do all this stuff, too. And it has side guns. And it can survive the shot. It explodes over the Raiders the same, that I grant, but ... it's not a place where the Heavy Destroyer is better.
Maybe under the 2e beam rules, the HDD will see its day. But that day isn't until, at least, August.
-- Can help defend damaged raiders for short periods of time
-- Point defenses against Heavy Fighters and eventual 2e Bombers
-- Firepower suiting a Raid-level ship
-- Can survive two direct Raid beam-ship blasts
-- Can, at minimum, stay with the Heavy Raiders comfortably
-- Doesn't explode over the Heavy Raiders too badly in the event of a catastrophic failure
-- Can provide jump-point insertion
The Heavy Destroyer, unfortunately, missed this mark. Point by point:
-- The ship's survivability is poor. Consider one good shot from a Hyperion (a, granted, slightly overgunned Raid ship, but the GEG will get to go multiple times):
4 SAP beams: 8 hits for 18.9/18.9 --> 16/16 after the GEG (OW!)
While, individually, the next two weapon systems will each fail to overwhelm the GEG, you'll get one crit out of it, thereby bypassing the GEG:
6 Pulse Cannons: 3 Hits
4 Plasma Cannons: 3.55 Hits (AP, TL)
1 Single-damage weapon should Critical (more, if you 4 and then 2 hits, thereby exceeding the GEG itself): 1/1 + Critical (1.6/2.1) = 2.6/3.1
Average (with rounding, granted): 19/20. Crippled and Skeletoned, and if you lose the GEG, the Antifighter system is more than capable of finishing you off.
AIGH! This didn't even use CAF. It could have been worse!
So, it fails to survive. This is a big, bad no-no for a ship, espeically at Raid level. Does it at least do every other job well? Not hardly!
-- Point Defenses against Heavy Fighters and 2e Bombers: No side guns. At all. This is the main weakness the Raiders need help with, and it doesn't provide it. Bad.
-- Don't explode over the raiders: If the GEG 3 fails due to a strike, the rest of the ship will explode nicely, given the Hull of 4, and it (barely) still explodes for 10 dice.
-- Can defend raiders for a short period of time: The best way is by escort cover or maneouver to shield. Given the survivability issue above, I can't see this as a viable option.
It does do the rest -- firepower befiting a Raid ship, check, can keep up with the Heavy Raiders, check. A jump engine is also available, a major check. But, well .... a Light Cruiser can basically do all this stuff, too. And it has side guns. And it can survive the shot. It explodes over the Raiders the same, that I grant, but ... it's not a place where the Heavy Destroyer is better.
Maybe under the 2e beam rules, the HDD will see its day. But that day isn't until, at least, August.
Whatdoyouwant?
Mongoose
Just found this dated but great thread. Any advise about Cruiser (WAR) or the usefullness of the patrol cruiser?
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Due to the change in beam weaponry's mechanic, the details of this article are largely out of date. Some sections still make a lot of sense:
-- The concepts section about leveraging the GEG and the Napoleonic tactics are still good. These sections were all about the GEG rules, not the rest of the game. The only changes would be in the need to avoid SAP beams, which, when CAFed (or Scout redirected) in Revised Edition, carved up Raiders like a scalpel. Since Hull is now irrelevant to beams, and you cannot Concetrate All Firepower (CAF) on them anymore, beams are now amongst the least of your worries.
-- In Second Edition, the firepower environment has been substantially increased, making GEG less powerful; you can't be a choosy as you used to be. In particular, all those Anti-fighter guns that you used to ignore are gone .... and instead inserted into other weapons systems, thereby reducing the number of weapons the GEG works against.
-- The assessments of the individual ships has changed drastically. The Scout no longer serves any recognizable fleet purpose and should be ignored as a fleet element; I'm not sure I'd even use it against Minbari. The Light Raider's stock rose dramatically from marginal initiative sink to highly usable weapon. Keep in mind that, in general, it cannot kill anything large. Even in packs; it is used to cripple only, and with the special order All Hands to Deck becoming automatic, long-term impairment is extremely difficult to achieve. If you want a dead ship, the Heavy Raider is the way to go, but defending it is extremely difficult. The Light Cruiser lost a die of beam, changing its assessment totally from being a Striker on a Premiership side to marginal player in the US's MLS. The Fast Destroyer, however, is now selectable; again, like the Heavy Raider, you really have to be careful with it.
There's so much to change here, that I have to rewrite a lot of sections wholesale, but I don't have enough feel with new Drakh to do it --- so much has changed. Many more Emines, the new buydown structure, the Amu (the most important ship in your fleet BY FAR) the new Dra'Vash ... it'll take a few months before I'm ready to dust this off and start anew.
Quickly on the Cruiser and the Patrol Cruiser, two ships I'm still making adjustments on (two of my weakest ships right now, frankly -- I need more experience to use them successfully)
A). I think the Patrol Cruiser is a loser. I can't find much to recommend it. Without Dodge, it's GEG is effectively 2/3 the strength of the Heavy Raider, and that isn't good on its own. The only thing that I can recommend out of it is ability to Close Blast Doors, but, honestly, doesn't the Light Raider have a larger suite of defensive mechanisms? Oftentimes basic fighters have little to do other than trawl for criticals against Drakh, but here they can act as interceptors for the Patrol Cruiser's only gun, so that isn't a winner, either. If you ran a wing of nothing but Patrol Cruisers in an attempt to overwhelm interception, then I can see it, especially against Hulls 4 and 5. Probably useful in Patrol-level scenarios, as dedicated fleets of this and Maybe(!) CL's, and a cheap way to open a Jump point for a wing of Raiders to come into a battle from Hyperspace behind an enemy fleet. Too bad this ship doesn't do the thing the Drakh really, really needed (then, it'd be a required buy to defend against Breaching Pods and bombers), Escort, Antifighter 3. Early verdict: D+.
B). The Dra'Vash I'm even less skilled in using, so take this with a grain of salt. I tried using this as a long-range beam platform, and it just didn't pay for itself. Well, duh, I'm a moron --- if you want that, take two of the Ria'vash variants and get the two free raiders. If you don't get your money's worth out of the rear beam system, you've messed up badly.
Fortunately, with the nature of the GEG, the middle of the furball is a fine place for you to be. And you don't have any old GEG, no no no.... you have the GEG 4. Even with "only" Hull 5, big Octurion-like arrays (like from the Ion Cannons) only average 12:10 + 2 crits. Under Close Blast Doors this is almost negligible! If this is on the table, the opponent must kill it quickly, because if he trades his heavy ships for your light ones, he'll end up with nothing that can reliably pierce the GEG, and staying out of both heavy beam arcs of this ship is just not a viable strategy.
I haven't been able to get as much as I expect from this ship yet, however. There's a lot more to extract; I just need to hurry up and do it. I think this ship belongs in the furball. How to get it there is something I'm working on. I'm not sure if I can flank with it -- I think it's just the tiniest bit too slow to try that trick with, and the priority is too high to expect that to succeed.
Side benefit of ship: it's the first ship that provides a credible halo of fire to preclude Breaching Pod attacks, to which you are very exposed. Grade: Incomplete, but if I had to give one now, B- .... there are a lot of amazing War-level hulls out there.
-- The concepts section about leveraging the GEG and the Napoleonic tactics are still good. These sections were all about the GEG rules, not the rest of the game. The only changes would be in the need to avoid SAP beams, which, when CAFed (or Scout redirected) in Revised Edition, carved up Raiders like a scalpel. Since Hull is now irrelevant to beams, and you cannot Concetrate All Firepower (CAF) on them anymore, beams are now amongst the least of your worries.
-- In Second Edition, the firepower environment has been substantially increased, making GEG less powerful; you can't be a choosy as you used to be. In particular, all those Anti-fighter guns that you used to ignore are gone .... and instead inserted into other weapons systems, thereby reducing the number of weapons the GEG works against.
-- The assessments of the individual ships has changed drastically. The Scout no longer serves any recognizable fleet purpose and should be ignored as a fleet element; I'm not sure I'd even use it against Minbari. The Light Raider's stock rose dramatically from marginal initiative sink to highly usable weapon. Keep in mind that, in general, it cannot kill anything large. Even in packs; it is used to cripple only, and with the special order All Hands to Deck becoming automatic, long-term impairment is extremely difficult to achieve. If you want a dead ship, the Heavy Raider is the way to go, but defending it is extremely difficult. The Light Cruiser lost a die of beam, changing its assessment totally from being a Striker on a Premiership side to marginal player in the US's MLS. The Fast Destroyer, however, is now selectable; again, like the Heavy Raider, you really have to be careful with it.
There's so much to change here, that I have to rewrite a lot of sections wholesale, but I don't have enough feel with new Drakh to do it --- so much has changed. Many more Emines, the new buydown structure, the Amu (the most important ship in your fleet BY FAR) the new Dra'Vash ... it'll take a few months before I'm ready to dust this off and start anew.
Quickly on the Cruiser and the Patrol Cruiser, two ships I'm still making adjustments on (two of my weakest ships right now, frankly -- I need more experience to use them successfully)
A). I think the Patrol Cruiser is a loser. I can't find much to recommend it. Without Dodge, it's GEG is effectively 2/3 the strength of the Heavy Raider, and that isn't good on its own. The only thing that I can recommend out of it is ability to Close Blast Doors, but, honestly, doesn't the Light Raider have a larger suite of defensive mechanisms? Oftentimes basic fighters have little to do other than trawl for criticals against Drakh, but here they can act as interceptors for the Patrol Cruiser's only gun, so that isn't a winner, either. If you ran a wing of nothing but Patrol Cruisers in an attempt to overwhelm interception, then I can see it, especially against Hulls 4 and 5. Probably useful in Patrol-level scenarios, as dedicated fleets of this and Maybe(!) CL's, and a cheap way to open a Jump point for a wing of Raiders to come into a battle from Hyperspace behind an enemy fleet. Too bad this ship doesn't do the thing the Drakh really, really needed (then, it'd be a required buy to defend against Breaching Pods and bombers), Escort, Antifighter 3. Early verdict: D+.
B). The Dra'Vash I'm even less skilled in using, so take this with a grain of salt. I tried using this as a long-range beam platform, and it just didn't pay for itself. Well, duh, I'm a moron --- if you want that, take two of the Ria'vash variants and get the two free raiders. If you don't get your money's worth out of the rear beam system, you've messed up badly.
Fortunately, with the nature of the GEG, the middle of the furball is a fine place for you to be. And you don't have any old GEG, no no no.... you have the GEG 4. Even with "only" Hull 5, big Octurion-like arrays (like from the Ion Cannons) only average 12:10 + 2 crits. Under Close Blast Doors this is almost negligible! If this is on the table, the opponent must kill it quickly, because if he trades his heavy ships for your light ones, he'll end up with nothing that can reliably pierce the GEG, and staying out of both heavy beam arcs of this ship is just not a viable strategy.
I haven't been able to get as much as I expect from this ship yet, however. There's a lot more to extract; I just need to hurry up and do it. I think this ship belongs in the furball. How to get it there is something I'm working on. I'm not sure if I can flank with it -- I think it's just the tiniest bit too slow to try that trick with, and the priority is too high to expect that to succeed.
Side benefit of ship: it's the first ship that provides a credible halo of fire to preclude Breaching Pod attacks, to which you are very exposed. Grade: Incomplete, but if I had to give one now, B- .... there are a lot of amazing War-level hulls out there.
Whatdoyouwant?
Mongoose
Thank you for making the time for your long post! I'll be keeping an eye out for any more of your posts regarding the Drakh!
