Dodge and running adrift?

[sidewinder]

I was playing a game against ISA and we got into an argument over whether an ships(whitestar) that took an engine 6 crit, so that it is moving as if adrift, is the same as being adrift so that it wouldnt get its dodge. I said it couldnt cause otherwise whats the point, but I got overruled cause they said it moves as if its adrift, but it still has crew and hits left so it isnt really adrift. Which is it?

 

[Winged_Human]

From what I understand, and how we've been playing it locally...

In your situation, the WS would not get it's dodge.

Since the Crit states the ship moves as though it's Adrift, and According to the Didge rules, any ships that either don't move, or are Adrift do not get to dodge.


IMO those rules were created for that specific purpose.

 

[WereRogue]

Yeah, but I see the confusion. What, if any, is the difference between being Adrift and moving as if you're Adrift?

-Ken

 

[Winged_Human]

IMO, I don't think there really is a difference. I think both phrases in terms of negatives applied to a ship, are the same.

Though I don't think you're "Being adrift" until the Ship has a Crew of 0, or Stricken.

And Moving as if you're adrift means that your movement and it's restrictions are applied to the craft, but everything else (that would normally come with "being adrift") would not... i.e Special actions

 

[WereRogue]

IMO, I don't think there really is a difference. I think both phrases in terms of negatives applied to a ship, are the same.

Though I don't think you're "Being adrift" until the Ship has a Crew of 0, or Stricken.

And Moving as if you're adrift means that your movement and it's restrictions are applied to the craft, but everything else (that would normally come with "being adrift") would not... i.e Special actions

Which, according to that logic, would indicate that the ship would retain its Dodge ability.

-Ken

 

[Winged_Human]

No it wouldn't... the Dodge Ability says the ship loses the "Dodge" ability when "Ships are Adrift"

So when a Ship is Moving as if adrift, it moves half speed straight forward, and loses the Dodge.

 

[WereRogue]

No it wouldn't... the Dodge Ability says the ship loses the "Dodge" ability when "Ships are Adrift"

So when a Ship is Moving as if adrift, it moves half speed straight forward, and loses the Dodge.

I completely disagree. It is moving "as if" Adrift, which is not the same as "being" adrift. "As if" implying that the ship operates like it were adrift, w/o being under any of the other restrictions of that status, or, actually being in that status at all.

However, taken out of the context of the rules, and put in fluff context, I can see a strong case for a ship (whether adrift or pseudo-adrift) not being particularly nimble enough to Dodge much.

Again, this could just be a simple lack-of-clarification in the rules like we're having in another thread.

-Ken

 

[Greg Smith]

I will tell you the intent of the rule and the wording.

The intent is that the White Star cannot dodge. Since the 1-6 crit was changed from 0 speed to adrift, the dodge rule was changed to cannot dodge when adrift. Similarly mass drivers can target adrift ships.

However, the definition of Running Adrift comes from a ship that is reduced to 0 crew. This definition is important in the stealth rule.

So the critical reads 'moves as though it is adrift' to differentiate it from a ship that is non-functional through loss of crew.

 

[sidewinder]

I know what the spirit of the rule is but I need an official answer to give them. they wont accept someones opinion. Cause they made the same argument that you guys did on why it still gets to dodge. Can someone try and get Matt or someone who works for the company to answer this? Unless one of you is a playtester or something?

 

[Greg Smith]

I am a playtester.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I know what the spirit of the rule is but I need an official answer to give them. they wont accept someones opinion. Cause they made the same argument that you guys did on why it still gets to dodge. Can someone try and get Matt or someone who works for the company to answer this? Unless one of you is a playtester or something?

No, it cannot Dodge

 

[Burger]

For some logic to back it up: dodge is movement. Moving as if it is adrift, means it can't dodge because adrift ships can't dodge.

 

[WereRogue]

I will tell you the intent of the rule and the wording.

The intent is that the White Star cannot dodge. Since the 1-6 crit was changed from 0 speed to adrift, the dodge rule was changed to cannot dodge when adrift. Similarly mass drivers can target adrift ships.

However, the definition of Running Adrift comes from a ship that is reduced to 0 crew. This definition is important in the stealth rule.

So the critical reads 'moves as though it is adrift' to differentiate it from a ship that is non-functional through loss of crew.

I agree with the intent (and the ruling!), but still maintain that some clarity and conciseness in the rules would be much appreciated.

Then again, maybe that's the difference between speaking English and speaking American. We like things spelled out for us!

• 
  Them: "No, you can't have your own country, you don't have a flag."
  Us: "Oh yeah? <Betsy Ross-Smash!>

-Ken

 

[Ripple]

Have to agree...

Clarity - in any rule system clarity is king. We only have a book, no access to intent or the designer, say at a tourney. If the book says 'MOVE as if adrift' that is different from 'Running Adrift'. The play tester above even points to the fact they did indeed make the distinction intentionally without working through the meaning in terms of all other rules using the term 'Adrift'.

So the confusion is honest and valid, and the answer needs to be dropped in the next fAQ, not because most of us couldn't work out the answer if we wanted to, but because in a competitive environment the best of us rarely shows up.

>hhmmm....seems to have snapped on a white collar, grabbed a book a podium and started preaching the gospel according to Ripple. Must close up shop and move along...nothing to hear here.

Ripple

 

[sidewinder]

Yeah, and then there are the people who just want to get the rules in thier favor, even knowing what was intended but using the wording or vagueness to their favor.