PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
MRQ CONAN!
Do We Have To Say It Again?!
- Thread starter PrinceYyrkoon
- Start date
master of reality
Mongoose
With all the d20 stuff already published for Conan, I can understand resistance to publishing an entirely separate line of MRQ Conan stuff, but Mongoose could at least publish MRQ stats to go along with their current line of Conan adventures. That gives players the option to use either system without the need to rewrite the Conan adventures that have already been published.
Twin Agate Dragons
Mongoose
Gods no. I'm just starting to invest in D20 Conan.
Besides, I really have only a fleeting interest in RuneQuest. I only want to get the rules so that if I ever need them, they're there for me.
Besides, I really have only a fleeting interest in RuneQuest. I only want to get the rules so that if I ever need them, they're there for me.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
The well-known problem is that the license doesnt allow two versions it seems.
Ive invested in all of the 2nd edition books, (and quite a few of the 1st edition ones now), and its the system that is the major hurdle to my enjoyment of the game. I can appreciate the cool bits, sorcery, etc., and the system changes, feats and all, but, man, the system is convoluted as hell. I would venture to suggest that forgetting modifiers here and there is a common occurance, and should imagine that few GMs use all the rules as presented all of the time. (And the consistent adding of extra feats, rules and conditions in the supplements make this fairly certain).
Ive ran a few sessions of my own design, (rather than using published adventure material I mean), but the amount of preparation neccessary was fairly off-putting, though the games ran well, mostly due to an inordinate amount of careful pre-game work.
There seems to be this idea that Runequest is more crunchy than D20. Its not. There are smooth universal mechanics that make sense. In every edition of Runequest, the core rules are always explained in around 50 pages maximum. Its just a slightly more crunchy version of the Call of Cthulhu mechanics in fact, and CoC is well known to be rules-lite.
Could we, at least, have conversion notes online? Does that break the agreement?
I have converted the Slaine Moon Sow campaign from a D20 version to RQ, with little trouble, partly because I possess both rulesets (D20 Slaine and RQ Slaine), and a lot of the spell names and other factors have similar terms. Converting Conan to RQ is proving to be a little more difficult.
I understand that the work has already been done. Could I take a look possibly?
Ive invested in all of the 2nd edition books, (and quite a few of the 1st edition ones now), and its the system that is the major hurdle to my enjoyment of the game. I can appreciate the cool bits, sorcery, etc., and the system changes, feats and all, but, man, the system is convoluted as hell. I would venture to suggest that forgetting modifiers here and there is a common occurance, and should imagine that few GMs use all the rules as presented all of the time. (And the consistent adding of extra feats, rules and conditions in the supplements make this fairly certain).
Ive ran a few sessions of my own design, (rather than using published adventure material I mean), but the amount of preparation neccessary was fairly off-putting, though the games ran well, mostly due to an inordinate amount of careful pre-game work.
There seems to be this idea that Runequest is more crunchy than D20. Its not. There are smooth universal mechanics that make sense. In every edition of Runequest, the core rules are always explained in around 50 pages maximum. Its just a slightly more crunchy version of the Call of Cthulhu mechanics in fact, and CoC is well known to be rules-lite.
Could we, at least, have conversion notes online? Does that break the agreement?
I have converted the Slaine Moon Sow campaign from a D20 version to RQ, with little trouble, partly because I possess both rulesets (D20 Slaine and RQ Slaine), and a lot of the spell names and other factors have similar terms. Converting Conan to RQ is proving to be a little more difficult.
I understand that the work has already been done. Could I take a look possibly?
I'm also eager to see mongoose Conan free at last of the D20 rules. With supposed "great news for Conan coming in 2010", including a return to full coulour, we can bet a new edition of the game is on its way. The current policy of Mongoose seem to translate most of their games to their licensed engines, MRQ and Traveller, so I have high hopes to see a new Conan edition using MRQ. The book has already been written by Vincent Darlage a few years back but never saw print, but who knows what the future holds?
In my humble opinion EVERY RPG setting should be published with MRQ/BRP (or HQ... but that is a different story).
MRQ/BRP is a great gritty game with an realistric and simulation approach, AND it is easy to understand AND great for beginners.
HQ is a great storytelling game about man, myth, magic, and the flow of a story intead of a simulation. It has great examples that help to gras0p the game, also is also great for beginners.
Both games have a different approach to roleplaying, but share at the same time a lot f ideas with each other (so you can steal MRQ/BRP gritty stuff for your HQ, OR borrow HQ ideas for your MRQ/BRP).
These are the ONLY game systems i care about, and imho everything any roleplayer may need.
I have a LOT of RPGs in my shelf, but for almost all of them i can say: i like the setting, but don´t care for the rule system (Harnmaster works pretty good with RQ/BRP; so does Kult, Jorune, Tekumel. For Space 1889 or Pendragon would HQ work too).
My argument for MRQ/BRP always is:
Imagine the following situation
- you are running from 20 Orks/Trolls/Whatever
- a very deep gorge/chasm is in from of you, which you can´t bypass
- how to decide if you a) turn around and fight, b) try to jump on the other side of the gorge/chasm, or c) surrender.
In MRQ/BRP i only have to look at my fighting skill, and jump skill. A number along with % is always understood imediately.
How do you decide (as a beginning player) in other game systems?
If you need a simulation approach MRQ/BRP rules!
Cheers
André
MRQ/BRP is a great gritty game with an realistric and simulation approach, AND it is easy to understand AND great for beginners.
HQ is a great storytelling game about man, myth, magic, and the flow of a story intead of a simulation. It has great examples that help to gras0p the game, also is also great for beginners.
Both games have a different approach to roleplaying, but share at the same time a lot f ideas with each other (so you can steal MRQ/BRP gritty stuff for your HQ, OR borrow HQ ideas for your MRQ/BRP).
These are the ONLY game systems i care about, and imho everything any roleplayer may need.
I have a LOT of RPGs in my shelf, but for almost all of them i can say: i like the setting, but don´t care for the rule system (Harnmaster works pretty good with RQ/BRP; so does Kult, Jorune, Tekumel. For Space 1889 or Pendragon would HQ work too).
My argument for MRQ/BRP always is:
Imagine the following situation
- you are running from 20 Orks/Trolls/Whatever
- a very deep gorge/chasm is in from of you, which you can´t bypass
- how to decide if you a) turn around and fight, b) try to jump on the other side of the gorge/chasm, or c) surrender.
In MRQ/BRP i only have to look at my fighting skill, and jump skill. A number along with % is always understood imediately.
How do you decide (as a beginning player) in other game systems?
If you need a simulation approach MRQ/BRP rules!
Cheers
André
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
Garet said:Just to put my two coppers in.I will never buy anything using RQ rules. I really like how easy it is to use d20. To me gamemasters make d20 hard to use. This is true for any system though. just my thoughts.
Thanks for your input. I obviously disagree however. I used to play D&D way back when, with its odd take on things, but we didn't have anything better back in the day. And, if you think about it, a 20 sided die is just short hand for a percentage system where 1 point on a 20 sider equals 5% on a D100. I wouldn't ever say 'I won't play X', they'll all influenced by one another, (RQs 3D6 characteristics, D20s use of skills), its just that, well, D20 is clunky, especially for a GM. And its the GMs that have to put the extra effort in to make the game playable.
RQ/BRP is a great engine, and if you are a GM, its a dream to run. I shiver every time I open up my copy of the Conan RPG. However, I have run it now, and it was fairly successful, but thats because, as I said before, I put a lot of effort into it before I ran the game. It would have been a lot easier, and probably quicker/more enjoyable with the RQ system as the engine. I can see myself drifting away from the extra effort.
I agree too, RQ is/would be great for Tekumel, Jorune, etc., and FREAKIN' CONAN!
Mikko Leho
Mongoose
PrinceYyrkoon said:
Not really. This would be true if you where trying to roll 1-20 with d20, but with the D20 system the situation is more like 1-infinity. In short this is the difference between roll-over and roll-under mechanics.
PrinceYyrkoon said:
I agree with you on this, our D20 GM has reached the point of mental burnout with the system (his words). However claiming RQ to be easy to run is going to earn you some polite smiles from the Savage Worlds or Spirit of the Century (+ number of other) crowd.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
Mikko Leho said:
Its all relative! About the 1 - 20 and the percentage, RQs mechanics allow for skills over 100, in some cases its encouraged, though some feel that it stretches the mechanics. I meant that both the D20 and the D100 are pretty much the same thing in terms of number spread.
Mikko Leho
Mongoose
PrinceYyrkoon said:
I feel that roll-under % systems work most intuitively from 1 to 100%. After all Jumping 50% is pretty self-explanatory but Jumping 120% needs some clarification. Also it is not really that difficult to analyze your chance of success against DC 15 with d20 and Jumping +5. It is of course not as immediate as straight percent but at least the pattern is always the same no matter how high your skill goes.
For me the dice rolling is not the problem in RQ or in d20. Percentile system is intuitive and familiar from old RQ, CoC, Twilight:2000 (1st edition) and so on. d20 dice rolling is pretty much the same thing as is used in Cyberpunk 2020 for example, only in CP2020 the dice used is d10. So the dice rolling mechanic itself is not the issue, at least for me as they both are pretty simple.
What has been my greatest deterrent from any d20 system games (including D&D 3.x) especially as a GM lies in other parts of the system. What I mean are all those feats and special abilities that accumulate to characters. It wouldn't be that bad if they were only the concern of PCs but since they are integral part of NPCs as well, there is quite a lot to do when you create NPCs, especially high level NPCs. For me it's too much remembering to do when running those NPCs in the heat of combat.
I would guess that I would have been able to run d20 Starship Troopers since most of the opposition would have been bugs and I could have been drawing the hordes from the books straight. But in Conan most of the opposition would be other humans with classes, levels and all the other things that come with them.
What has been my greatest deterrent from any d20 system games (including D&D 3.x) especially as a GM lies in other parts of the system. What I mean are all those feats and special abilities that accumulate to characters. It wouldn't be that bad if they were only the concern of PCs but since they are integral part of NPCs as well, there is quite a lot to do when you create NPCs, especially high level NPCs. For me it's too much remembering to do when running those NPCs in the heat of combat.
I would guess that I would have been able to run d20 Starship Troopers since most of the opposition would have been bugs and I could have been drawing the hordes from the books straight. But in Conan most of the opposition would be other humans with classes, levels and all the other things that come with them.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
Mikko Leho said:
I dont think it needs much explanation. It just means that a guy with 120% in Jumping would be exceptional at jumping. I dont think it matters that the mechanic makes you roll under a % (RQ), over a % (Rolemaster), or uses a D20 as a 5 increment substitute for a D100. You can have extreme modifiers in D20 as well, so a character with +26 mod to Jumping, would equate to a % mod of 130%. Its all jusy playing with numbers to get a result of marginal success or marginal faliure unless you are particularly bad or good at something.
Im not sure where a DC mean of 15 came from either. I guess its just another mechanic to 'normalise' the game. So, untrained, you a have a 25% chance of success, ironically, very similar to RQ and Rolemaster, and even classic Traveller's 8+ mechanic.
No, whilst the basic mechanic of D20 isn't, neccessarily, flawed, the interminable bolting on of situational mods, expertise mods, conditional mods, pre-requisites, etc., is flawed. So much so, that D20 results in a game whos strong point isn't simulating situations that commonly occur in an rpg session. (As Osentalka's example illustrates).
D20 strong points include character advancement, and a certain versatility as regards to setting. RQ isn't so good at these. RQ does detail a world where consistent results are achieved consistently in an environment that makes sense, and has a certain wiff of realism. D20 presents infinite possibilities, generic settings, creatures, artifacts, etc., then goes about attempting to limit the characters' exposure to these things.
master of reality
Mongoose
PrinceYyrkoon said:
If Mongoose did that I would probably buy the Conan scenarios as is. Publishing a separate MRQ Conan line, although nice, would then be unnecessary. Once I have the MRQ stats for these scenarios, I can fill in the rest using the MRQ Core book and GM guide. I would not buy the Conan core game itself unless it had a lot of good background material.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
master of reality said:
Yeah, I know what you mean, I dont need them tied up in a pretty bow, I just want to be able to get hold of the conversion work. I wouldnt mind though, if it came in the form of a 3rd edition MRQ Conan. Either way, I'd be happy.
I have done some conversion, its not too problematic, its just theres a fair amount of work there.
ozchandler
Mongoose
If Conan were to be reprinted in the MRQ rule set, I'd finally buy it. D20 anything is not for me.
