Do Fighters Count as Ships

[Ragewind]

I was going though the 2nd ed rule book to expand my knowledge of the game when I came upon a interesting sentence in the fighters section.

"Fighters count as ships for all purposes except as detailed below"

What does this mean exactly? Can I go into a game with just fighters (such as a patrol level game) or if all of my big ships get destroyed during a game could the fight continue until all my fighters are destroyed?

I think what I am asking is..

Is it legal to just take fighters by themselves in a normal game, and if so do I auto lose the game.

If I take a ship (and fighters) once the ship is destroyed do I lose the match? Such me Fielding a single carrier.

Its never come up as in 1st I believe fighters did not count as ships, but this new sentence throws me off a bit.

 

[Jetbaker]

As far as I know and have read, yes they do allow you to start and continue a battle with just fighters. Why this is allowed I am unsure as a scenario was brought up where Shadows and a fighter fleet would have a never ending game.

 

[Methos5000]

Its for that 3 point patrol battle where the Shadows must rely on their superior force of 6 shadow fighters.

In all seriousness though there has been alot of debate as to when fighters count as ships and when they count as aux craft. Certain situations (can't think of what they are right now) can arise where the fighters status is somewhat ambiguous.

 

[Ragewind]

Its for that 3 point patrol battle where the Shadows must rely on their superior force of 6 shadow fighters.

In all seriousness though there has been alot of debate as to when fighters count as ships and when they count as aux craft. Certain situations (can't think of what they are right now) can arise where the fighters status is somewhat ambiguous.

If you can figure out what situations those might be please let me know, forewarned is forearmed.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Missions where you get to leave half your ships in hyperspace are one. At first I was playing these as meaning that you can leave half you FAP of ships in hyperspace (leave 3 Raid points worth in hyperspace during a 6 Raid battle), but others have said that it's done by basic numbers (If you have 4 Warlocks and 4 Hermes, you can just deploy the Hermes and keep all 4 Warlocks in hyperspace).

The weirdness comes when you consider that fighters are ships, so if the 4 Hermes and 4 Warlock fleet also has 2 wings of Auroras (8 flights), you can now deploy everything except the fighters in hyperspace.
It gets better though. Nothing says that you only count ships that have been paid for on their own (rather than as part of another ship's cost), so you can count the carried fighters. This then raises questions of if you count the fighters which haven't been launched yet.

All in all, "half your ships" is a little fuzzy to start with, but throwing fighters into the equation really breaks sanity.

 

[Humbaba]

There is a curious “auto-lose” fighter exploit for the Recon Run scenario. As the defender, there is nothing forbidding you from taking just one fighter. On turn one you move the fighter out of the attacker’s firing arcs and the scenario automatically ends in a draw, which in a campaign match is as good as a win for the defender.

 

[Ragewind]

Missions where you get to leave half your ships in hyperspace are one. At first I was playing these as meaning that you can leave half you FAP of ships in hyperspace (leave 3 Raid points worth in hyperspace during a 6 Raid battle), but others have said that it's done by basic numbers (If you have 4 Warlocks and 4 Hermes, you can just deploy the Hermes and keep all 4 Warlocks in hyperspace).

The weirdness comes when you consider that fighters are ships, so if the 4 Hermes and 4 Warlock fleet also has 2 wings of Auroras (8 flights), you can now deploy everything except the fighters in hyperspace.
It gets better though. Nothing says that you only count ships that have been paid for on their own (rather than as part of another ship's cost), so you can count the carried fighters. This then raises questions of if you count the fighters which haven't been launched yet.

All in all, "half your ships" is a little fuzzy to start with, but throwing fighters into the equation really breaks sanity.

I suppose the real question is "Do the fighters inside their hangers count as deployed for the purpose of placing ships at the start of the game?" Otherwise this very same thing would happen with the Drakh. I'm thinking unless you are allowed to start with them deployed (as is the case with only one flight) you should not count them towards the total ships.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I suppose the real question is "Do the fighters inside their hangers count as deployed for the purpose of placing ships at the start of the game?" Otherwise this very same thing would happen with the Drakh. I'm thinking unless you are allowed to start with them deployed (as is the case with only one flight) you should not count them towards the total ships.

Even then, it doesn't feel to be what they intended. You could easily select an EA fleet in which all the capital ships carry at least 1 fighter, then deploy all the capitals in hyperspace just by leaving their initially launched flights on the board.
The big question is, what the hell did they mean in the first place?