Discussion Thread: What GENRE should Mongoose develop?
- Thread starter FreeTrav
- Start date
The problem with developing Traveller further is that, well, the existing skills and skill use system are so extremely limited that they don't do (IMO) a good enough job of representing the OTU's theoretical skill base to make them cross compatible with new genres.
You'd need more skills, at the very least.
Forex, I was flabbergasted some months ago by the article in Signs and Portents about Medicine in Traveller where the author blithely stated that Medic was cross TL compatible and that the only limit might be the level of Medic skill that could be achieved.
Um. Come again? Compare a Medic-1 from 2009 Australia with a Medic-1 from 1790 Australia? And claim they are "the same" in game terms? ROTFL for reasons that, I hope, are self evident (but just a forex - treatment for gunshot wound 2009 does not routinely involve limb amputation as it did in 1790).
The real solution would be to either differentiate between First Aid and Medical (i.e. splitting Medic into two) or, even better, have a Low Tech "Barber/Surgeon" and "Physician" split (where the B/S cuts the limb off and the Physician merely tells you what you're probably sick with and, less possibly, prescribes some drug or non-surgical treatment to deal with it more or less ineffectively). Which means, of course, more skills and a different approach to skill use in general.
Of course, if you don't want or care about cross genre/game compatibility and/or cross TL game compatibility (aka "realism"), then it's not a problem ... but that would really imply that Mongoose would have to do a standalone book for each genre rather than what they have done to date with Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog, for example.
Just some thoughts.
YMMV, of course :wink:
Phil
You'd need more skills, at the very least.
Forex, I was flabbergasted some months ago by the article in Signs and Portents about Medicine in Traveller where the author blithely stated that Medic was cross TL compatible and that the only limit might be the level of Medic skill that could be achieved.
Um. Come again? Compare a Medic-1 from 2009 Australia with a Medic-1 from 1790 Australia? And claim they are "the same" in game terms? ROTFL for reasons that, I hope, are self evident (but just a forex - treatment for gunshot wound 2009 does not routinely involve limb amputation as it did in 1790).
The real solution would be to either differentiate between First Aid and Medical (i.e. splitting Medic into two) or, even better, have a Low Tech "Barber/Surgeon" and "Physician" split (where the B/S cuts the limb off and the Physician merely tells you what you're probably sick with and, less possibly, prescribes some drug or non-surgical treatment to deal with it more or less ineffectively). Which means, of course, more skills and a different approach to skill use in general.
Of course, if you don't want or care about cross genre/game compatibility and/or cross TL game compatibility (aka "realism"), then it's not a problem ... but that would really imply that Mongoose would have to do a standalone book for each genre rather than what they have done to date with Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dredd and Strontium Dog, for example.
Just some thoughts.
YMMV, of course :wink:
Phil
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
In the poll thread,
Yes, that's a good example of a steampunk setting - but there are others as well - I remember encountering one where the author had essentially taken Star Trek, steampunked it, and set it in the Solar System, with the canonical Star Trek aliens being denizens of other planets or moons in our system, and Queen Victoria being a near-immortal ruler of the British Empire (which filled the role of the Federation), and so on. Would you be uninterested in a Mongoose Travellerpunk that was this, instead of Space: 1889? Or if Travellerpunk was a completely in-house setting? I'm interested not in interest in a specific implementation of the genre, but in the interest in the genre-in-abstract, regardless of the choice of specific setting.captainjack23 said:
A supplement that would support campaigns in a setting that is equivalentFreeTrav said:
to the real world ca. 1950 - 2010, somewhat similar to what Cthulhu Now
does for the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game, but not necessarily with all
the detailed real world background informations.
Apart from modifications of the skills and some new equipment, most of
the supplement could be gamemaster material that helps to create both
a campaign in this era - whether real world or purely fictional - and in-
teresting campaigns and adventures for such a setting.
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
aspqrz said:
Indeed you would, but perhaps not as many as you think. Or rather, many of those "new skills" would actually be simply redefinitions of already-extant skills, adjusted for the new genre.
aspqrz said:
This should clearly be considered an error. While it is cross-TL in the sense that the knowledge a high-TL medic will have is applicable even in a low-TL context - i.e., theory doesn't change - there are distinct differences in possible practices that do not cross TL.
I would be charitable and suggest that the S&P author might have been thinking along those lines in defining levels, but I can't bring myself to actually do it; it's just fundamentally unreasonable to me.
For any TL, there are actually two different "Medical" skills, and I'm not even addressing the idea of separating Doctor from Barber/Surgeon or Medical from First Aid; I'm dealing with the knowledge aspect: There's "Medical (Developed)", which refers to Medical as developed without having access to the KNOWLEDGE from higher levels - in this model, TL3 Medical is all about balancing humors, and using compounds that have alchemical significance (i.e., Sulfur (or whatever they called it) has a lot of fire in it; it is thus useful for treating someone whose blood has too much earth or water). The other Medical skill is "Medical (Fallback)", wherein the person with the skill knows about things like germ theory and hygiene and maybe even ultrasonics for bone healing promotion, but is limited in application to TL3 capabilities - he can't stick his stainless steel instruments into an autoclave; he has to settle for boiling his bronze instruments instead.
That difference is not well-modelled in Traveller - or, in fact, in any other game I'm aware of - and Medical isn't necessarily the only skill so affected.
aspqrz said:
Exactly. I think you and I are groping for the same idea from different directions.
aspqrz said:
This is a solution, but not necessarily the solution; consider what I suggested above, about at least knowing whether you're talking developed vs fallback.
aspqrz said:
No, not necessarily - the rules are OK as they stand - that is, you can still use the same task rolls, the concept of prior careers, possibly even some of the same prior careers; the genre sourcebooks would simply end up being "setting books" or "supplements" a la HS or JD, that tell you how to modify the core rules for that particular genre. For example, if a career gives the "Handgun" skill, the Traveller Steampunk Sourcebook might state "When awarding Handgun skill levels to a character, the character must choose between Revolver and Pistol; semi-automatic and automatic handguns are not available. Furthermore, Pistols are single-shot only; it would have been common practice to carry a 'brace' (2 or 3) of them.". No need for a standalone book; in most cases, it is unlikely that modifications would be extensive enough that a standalone book would make more sense.
I point you at GURPS for an example; while GURPS isn't Traveller, there is no question - SJ has even admitted it - that GURPS was heavily influenced BY (Classic) Traveller.
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
BTW, folks, don't forget to cast a vote in the POLL thread for this topic, at What GENRE should Mongoose develop for the Traveller rules?.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
FreeTrav said:
Yes, in all honesty, I'd probably be interested in the general development of a steampunk line. I just really really miss 1899 - and why I suggested it was because of that, but also because it is a much more travelleresque interpretation of the genre than much of the current victorian SF/Steampunk genres, which are generally more steamdungeonpunk or steamhorror than not. which is fine, please, no tirades. It's simply that I just love the period of victorian SF written in Victorian times.
So. Steampunk without elves would be good; some ghosts, okay, maybe a little magic as powers of the mind, perhaps. Aliens, good. Ether/Phlogistem, good.
And, in conclusion, my good fellow, you must, must, I beseech you, point me towards the "Steam Trek" game you discuss.
I remain, your humble servant,
Col Augustus Strake-Holystone,
Captain HMAS Thunderchild, Ganymede station.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Might this be it?
http://steam-trek.com/
LBH
http://steam-trek.com/
LBH
G. K. Zhukov
Banded Mongoose
I had voted for Hard SF - but that is easily modified from vanilla Traveller. Victorian SF/Steampunk, on the other hand...
Count me in! :wink:
Count me in! :wink:
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Sir,
If it is not, you have nonetheless done a wonderously good days work in presenting this. The site you so graciously present is of nearly inestimable entertainment and the highest of educational value. I happily proffer my deepest thanks to you both in this matter.
I am, as ever,
yr mst obt servant,
Augustus Strake-Holystone, Captain, ROE
HMAS Thunderchild, Ganymede station.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
You're both welcome, though all I did was google for Steam Trek.
LBH
LBH
G. K. Zhukov
Banded Mongoose
EDG said:
I guess there is a difference between a full-blown transhumanist future (including AIs and mind uploading) and a "low-SF" approach which is basically an extrapolation of the tecnologies currently in existence and/or development (bio-engineering, miniaturization, etc.), without the aforementioned AI's and mind uploading.
I guess that would pretty much eliminate the unavoidable technological singularity, as well as the presumable immortality human kind would enjoy from the newly acquired ability to reincarnate in a bioroid, a mechanical body, a toaster, a starship, etc.
(Pardon for my English.)
BTW, nice to have you around, Doc.
G. K. Zhukov
Banded Mongoose
EDG said:
I would certainly say so.
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