Dilettante!

[Lord High Munchkin]

Certainly abbots can't marry as they take monastic vows of celibacy, and cardinals are Catholic, so can't anyway.

 

[alex_greene]

In fact, the expectation that noble rank might be degraded is likely to result in the disgraced noble doing "the honourable thing". ("There's a laspistol in the dresser drawer, old man. You know what to do.")

Suicide as an acceptable act to make up for social disgrace is quite common in many cultures. Romans, Germans, French, English and Japanese immediately spring to mind. This seems to be assiciated with military disgrace, and is probably a common factor for the cultures above, all of whom had strong military cultures underpinning their nobility.

One has to think of the family's honour, don't you know?

The Operative: "You know, in certain ... older ... civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords."

I love that movie.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I think I might have to wander into the Compleat Strategist soon and get me a copy of this. Sounds like M. Pete did a good job and I want to see for myself.

 

[rust]

I think I might have to wander into the Compleat Strategist soon and get me a copy of this. Sounds like M. Pete did a good job and I want to see for myself.

He really did.

I have downloaded Dilettante, and it has inspired me to start a second set-
ting project (see "Instant Colony" thread) with a couple of dilettantes who
want to become famous by founding their own colony, terraforming and ru-
ling their own world - they have the money to do this, although not neces-
sarily the skills, but with enough money and connections to throw at prob-
lems ...

 

[AndrewW]

I think I might have to wander into the Compleat Strategist soon and get me a copy of this. Sounds like M. Pete did a good job and I want to see for myself.

Considering he did a good job with Darrians I'de say most likely.

 

[rinku]

Until the Modern Age nobles had only very limited options for their occupations: Estate Management, Politics, Diplomacy, Church, University and Military.

Actually, quite often to choose "university" as an occupation one had to be a clergyman (at least in Minor Orders).

Additionally, as a clerical university professor, one might be required not to marry... which would make it a poor choice for nobles.

That's denominational. Church of England clerics were *expected* to marry. Islamic ones too, I think. Vicar's wives are an integral part of the traditional English village social environment.

The 3rd Imperium's nobility arose from mercantile stock, so I'd expect there's less stigma attached to business pursuits of an appropriate level.

Edit: Oh, and Pete, I had a look at it today. Add my congratulations for a job well done in *several* areas much neglected.

We haven't really had Rock & Roll and Traveller since 1985 (JTAS 23 - John M. Ford's Amber Zone Roadshow). Go the Veeb!

 

[rust]

Slightly off topic, but worth to be mentioned ...

It seems that a certain Pete Nash has written a supplement describing
the Roman Republic as a setting for the BRP system, and that this has
won the Silver Medal for Best Setting at the Ennies.

Congratulations.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Slightly off topic, but worth to be mentioned ...

It seems that a certain Pete Nash has written a supplement describing
the Roman Republic as a setting for the BRP system, and that this has
won the Silver Medal for Best Setting at the Ennies.

Congratulations.

Hey good job my man, good job indeed.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Until the Modern Age nobles had only very limited options for their occupations: Estate Management, Politics, Diplomacy, Church, University and Military.

Actually, quite often to choose "university" as an occupation one had to be a clergyman (at least in Minor Orders).

Additionally, as a clerical university professor, one might be required not to marry... which would make it a poor choice for nobles.

That's denominational. Church of England clerics were *expected* to marry.

Err not quite... Charles Dodgson and university professors of his time period (mid 19th century) were actually not allowed by the C of E.

 

[Jame Rowe]

I think I might have to wander into the Compleat Strategist soon and get me a copy of this. Sounds like M. Pete did a good job and I want to see for myself.

Considering he did a good job with Darrians I'de say most likely.

I went in to the Compleat Strategist and got a copy. It's a good book, and I like the vehicle additions and the rules for addictions.

However, I went back an hour later and swapped it for Merchant Prince; I wanted MP more I'm afraid. Someday, though; some day.

 

[rinku]

Err not quite... Charles Dodgson and university professors of his time period (mid 19th century) were actually not allowed by the C of E.

That may have been the case for that position, but it wasn't general. Edward VI eliminated required celibacy in the Anglican clergy, though there are factions within the church that do practice it.

In any case, (since the original point was regarding scions of noble houses), even in Catholic countries an ordained heir only had to give up his church position to take over the inheritance and was free to marry then. Also, previously married men who later took vows remained married (but were supposed to remain celibate) - the marriage itself was (and is) not annulled by doing so. A lot of nobles moved into clerical jobs for political purposes or as a form of retirement after producing a litter of legitimate kids.

 

[rust]

A lot of nobles moved into clerical jobs for political purposes or as a form of retirement after producing a litter of legitimate kids.

Renaissance Italy had a whole crowd of nobles who changed between
Catholic church positions and worldly life almost at will.

 

[Captain Jonah]

A lot of nobles moved into clerical jobs for political purposes or as a form of retirement after producing a litter of legitimate kids.

Renaissance Italy had a whole crowd of nobles who changed between
Catholic church positions and worldly life almost at will.

Not sure that should count since they were basicly buying title and position in the church at the time

 

[rust]

Not sure that should count since they were basicly buying title and position in the church at the time

I think Mongoose Traveller Book 8: Dilettante needs an additional chapter
covering the purchase and sale of church positions ...

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Slightly off topic, but worth to be mentioned ...

It seems that a certain Pete Nash has written a supplement describing
the Roman Republic as a setting for the BRP system, and that this has
won the Silver Medal for Best Setting at the Ennies.

Congratulations.

Hey good job my man, good job indeed.

Thanks guys.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Not sure that should count since they were basicly buying title and position in the church at the time

I think Mongoose Traveller Book 8: Dilettante needs an additional chapter
covering the purchase and sale of church positions ...

I could get into such deep water with that one... Err, perhaps not.

 

[ribby]

about the vow of celabity that the church uses
it does allow people to be married and to enter the church
it more about sex then love
i even belive if you go threw the popes lists yes will see some were married

 

[rust]

about the vow of celabity that the church uses
it does allow people to be married and to enter the church
it more about sex then love
i even belive if you go threw the popes lists yes will see some were married

I think for at least some of them a marriage would only have got in the
way of pleasure ... :lol:

Warning - Wikipedia but nonetheless a bit explicit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banquet_of_Chestnuts

A nice example if you want to introduce some real decadence into your
Traveller dilettante's life. :shock:

 

[rinku]

Book 10: Divine Right

 

[Jame Rowe]

Not sure that should count since they were basicly buying title and position in the church at the time

I think Mongoose Traveller Book 8: Dilettante needs an additional chapter
covering the purchase and sale of church positions ...

I could get into such deep water with that one... Err, perhaps not.

do it. DO IT! i DARE you! :twisted:


why in the hell are you listening to me?!? :wink: