Dilettante!

[hdan]

Just picked up a copy of Dilettante, and on my first skim-read through, it has me giggling like a madman!

I'm particularly fond of the Portfolios section (which lets you focus on Wealth at the kind of abstract level that truly powerful people would while still providing some metagaming fun) and the Normandy, I mean "Iridium Lion" (I'd love to see the unconverted specs of that ship).

MAJOR Hats off to Pete Nash. This book looks like exactly what I need for a Nobles in Trouble campaign, spanning everything from Lara Croft type Archaeology to SW:TFM to, well, just about anything involving people who don't have to work for a living and the sorts of trouble they can get themselves into.

 

[Animation]

Yeah I picked the book up at my local hobby shop, and I found it to be a fun read. It *does* make me want to play in or run a game of all Dilettantes.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Thanks guys! Its nice to know when a book hits the spot for some people.

 

[hdan]

No problem Pete; credit where credit's due.

Dilettante is pretty far off the standard Traveller path, except as you note as a good way to run detailed patrons, give your PCs something to aspire to, etc.

But for me, I think the idea of purposefully running a campaign where at least one (if not all) of the PCs are Dilettantes has a strong appeal. If nothing else, you can have one Dilettante and the rest are his/her "Posse", which could also have some amusement value, especially if one of the other PCs keeps trying to "reach above his station".

 

[Cyphr]

Dilettante is a definite must have addition. IMHO this book covers an area that was never really covered. All the other books were military or merchantile in nature. If not the focus of a campaign the book does give an interesting part of society for a bunch of travellers to deal with.

An interesting combo is Dilettante and Merchant Prince. Imagine a high society trader with a nice portfolio and ships shares for a business startup.

1 MCR gives 40 wealth points!

 

[Galadrion]

Actually, a more... interesting combo is High Guard and Merchant Princes -- the navy's business subsidy benefit (can't remember the exact benefit title at the moment) provides the player with the option of twenty ship shares (100 wealth points) or one to six MCr (40 to 240 wealth points!) towards the establishment of a navy-oriented business. And a retiring naval officer who can get that result may well get it more than once...

Personally, I like some of the other ways this could be used. While under the rules as written, a character can't muster out with more than three rolls on the portfolio benefits table (barring life events), there's nothing in the rules which says that a character can't create a portfolio while an active traveller. This gives those characters who (temporarily) accumulate more credits than they can currently use another way to put them to work for themselves, without having to remain as involved as they should using the commercial entity rules in Merchant Princes. So a roving merchant character could set up a portfolio using funds in excess of what he can use to actually fill his hold, leave them to continue their growth in a given system while he goes out on a medium-length trade run, and come back to a usefully-increased nest egg. Really, there's no reason that any character can't get some use out of these rules. With a little bit of strategic planning, this could be a route for a group to go from being tramp freighter crew to (eventually) founding their own business entity without having to haul around unreasonable amounts of cash which isn't doing them any real good on the trip.

 

[AndrewW]

Dilettante is a definite must have addition. IMHO this book covers an area that was never really covered. All the other books were military or merchantile in nature. If not the focus of a campaign the book does give an interesting part of society for a bunch of travellers to deal with.

I wouldn't say all the others. Agents aren't really military or merchantile, same for scoundrels... Then there's psion, though some careers in there are military. And Scouts aren't exactly military either though they do help out the military.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Morning pete. Good book, very entertaining

Social status, the booo galoo of traveller refs everywhere.

If you created a Dilettante and after a few terms go join another career that via a misshap permenantly lowers your Soc how does it work?

You are a knight Soc 11, you do something to get -1 soc. Sorry you are now a peasant and we are taking your knighthood back :twisted:

Not sure if you cover this as I didn't spot it but a Nobles Soc should be permenant. You are soc 11 because you are a knight not a knight becasue you are sco11. Soc changes may alter how people see you but you are still a knight and likely to be treated as such even if you were caught doing something naughty which lowers your apparent Soc.

Only recently got the book so not yet read it the 10+ times I have read all my other Traveller books so I may have missed this point being answered.

Answers on a post card please

 

[rust]

You are a knight Soc 11, you do something to get -1 soc. Sorry you are now a peasant and we are taking your knighthood back :twisted:

I am not sure about the UK, but in other countries a knighthood - or
other noble title - could indeed be revoked, turning the former noble
(and often his heirs) into commoners.

For example, in the Holy Roman Empire any person under an Imperial
Ban automatically lost his noble status, and up to 1918 a person who
committed certain capital crimes also automatically was "denobled" in
Austria and Germany (and probably most other countries, too).

I would therefore distinguish between a loss of Soc that is merely a
bad reputation and a more serious one that angered the superior no-
ble enough to revoke the title and noble status.

 

[Myrm]

You are a knight Soc 11, you do something to get -1 soc. Sorry you are now a peasant and we are taking your knighthood back :twisted:

I am not sure about the UK, but in other countries a knighthood - or
other noble title - could indeed be revoked,

Could, sorry, CAN be done in the UK too.

How hard it is depends upon the Specific Honour involved - a lot of medals and the sort of modern honours just require the authority of the monarch. Hereditary peerages can have their Letters Patent modified or revoked by Act of Parliament and that has been done before (wiki mentions a 300 year old modification). Its very complicated as it depends where the peerage came from, how its lost or not eg attainted or forfeited. GO back far enough and we are talking Royal Decree being enough - at least if the monarch thinks they can avoid rebellion.

 

[locarno24]

Not sure if you cover this as I didn't spot it but a Nobles Soc should be permenant. You are soc 11 because you are a knight not a knight becasue you are sco11. Soc changes may alter how people see you but you are still a knight and likely to be treated as such even if you were caught doing something naughty which lowers your apparent Soc.

As noted, most titles can be revoked - in fact it's unusual when the reverse is true (the Victoria Cross, for example, can never be withdrawn, and as such is about the only military decoration people have been hung whilst wearing).

On a less earth-shattering level, you may have a noble/political post, but that doesn't necessarily mean people will treat you with that much respect if you manage to lose your public standing, even if you aren't removed from your post. See what happens to many politicians whilst in office - everthing from insults to buckets of horse excrement thrown at them in public.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

I wouldn't necesarily say that the PC lost their title if they can't spend the right amount, or if they got a -1 SOC on an Event or Mishap.

I would say that the PC has lost the respect of his peers and cannot maintain the contacts within the Nobility or Rich-and-Powerful because he is too poor, so his effective SOC is 10 or less, but he still has the title. I THINK there are lots of examples of this in Europe and other places. Relatively poor people with a noble title but no lands, no fief, none of the trappings of nobility, just a working stiff with a fancy plaque on the wall at home.

Depending on how the PC lost the SOC (mishap vs Event) then you MIGHT strip that PC of their title, but I would guess it would have to be a pretty bad Mishap to have that done. Nobility have gone to jail before without having their titles stripped. It CAN be done, but usually isn't.

 

[Captain Jonah]

True you can be stripped of your title for reason but to give an example from charcter misshaps.

If you are an Imperial knight and after a few terms as a noble you for some reason decide to become a scholar. Misshap 3 on the table for this career is:

The planetary government interferes with your research for political or religious reasons. If you continue with your work openly, increase any Science skill by one level and gain an Enemy. If you continue with your work secretly, increase any Science skill by one level and reduce your Social Standing by 2.

So a planetary religious group dislikes your working to cure diseases in the lower classes because they are not worthy in the eyes of the faithfull to be treated and should live of die as thier deity sees fit. By doing your noble best to treat the sick you have your Soc reduced by two.

Why would this have any effect on your status as an Imperial Knight even though you now have Soc 9. Why does not going to the parties lower your Soc if you are not one of those party going nobles and prefer a good holo drama or an evening with a few close friends instead.

Soc should be both temp and perm. As a Knight unless stripped of your title you have a perm Soc of 11, your tempory soc could be anything lower or higher than this. Where the knight part is important you are Soc 11 and nothing can change that, diplomacy roll etc. Where being a knight has no effect you can use your temp Soc, dealing with the Zhodani or trading negociating with the doggies who care far more about the warship you bought with you than some fancy Imperial sash on your coat.

You can be a knight because you were from a non noble family and received a knighthood for deeds done and have a soc of 15 because of a lot of terms in the Navy.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

You are a knight Soc 11, you do something to get -1 soc. Sorry you are now a peasant and we are taking your knighthood back :twisted:

I am not sure about the UK, but in other countries a knighthood - or
other noble title - could indeed be revoked,

Could, sorry, CAN be done in the UK too.

How hard it is depends upon the Specific Honour involved - a lot of medals and the sort of modern honours just require the authority of the monarch. Hereditary peerages can have their Letters Patent modified or revoked by Act of Parliament and that has been done before (wiki mentions a 300 year old modification). Its very complicated as it depends where the peerage came from, how its lost or not eg attainted or forfeited. GO back far enough and we are talking Royal Decree being enough - at least if the monarch thinks they can avoid rebellion.

It's even more complex than that in the UK, as there is an overlap between 'class' and 'title'... but important to remember they are not the same thing.

'Noble' is the social class, but the knighthood is a 'title' (it was bestowed, at least initially as regards higher titles, which may be hereditary afterwards).

A knight freshly dubbed is technically not a member of the noble social class (although his children born after investiture technically would be). If the knight lost the honour, he would be a 'commoner' still. Knighthoods can be seen as marks of personal achievement, in many ways.

If a Baron (in the sense of a hereditary title) was stripped of his peerage (and as long as he was born to a noble), he would still be a member of the noble 'class'... but no longer an aristocrat. He could possibly regain his title, or another later, but he would all the time be 'nobility'.

So going back to the 'Traveller' example, I'd view the SOC 10 knight is still a knight, but people see him as "fallen" from his previous status. The "posh set" probably would drop him like a hot brick.

 

[alex_greene]

Dilettante is a definite must have addition. IMHO this book covers an area that was never really covered. All the other books were military or merchantile in nature. If not the focus of a campaign the book does give an interesting part of society for a bunch of travellers to deal with.

An interesting combo is Dilettante and Merchant Prince. Imagine a high society trader with a nice portfolio and ships shares for a business startup.

It was the near-exclusive focus on martiality and mercantile trade that began driving me away from Traveller in the first instance. In CT, attempts to run murder mysteries or political intrigues seemed doomed to failure, because everything became all miniatures wargaming.

Dilettante, for me, was a refreshing change. Take away the motivation to get rich or die trying, inject a healthy desire to want to stay alive and characters appear with a whole different set of motivations, which are far more interesting to me: revenge, oneupmanship, rivalry, murder, scandal. Characters who are motivated to go off on adventures, not because there's a pot of cash in it for them, but because they're bored and it looks like it could be fun running through corridors with a horde of hostile aliens running after them screaming.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

Morning pete. Good book, very entertaining

Thank you.

If you created a Dilettante and after a few terms go join another career that via a misshap permenantly lowers your Soc how does it work?

It looks like everyone has answered for me!

The basic answer, as it seems to be for most of what I write, is that it depends on your campaign. I didn't include specific, nailed down rules since Dilettante is supposed to be setting neutral.

If you want permanent hereditary nobility then make the SOC loss virtual - i.e. they are still a Duke, but in social situations they are overlooked or slighted because they are in disgrace.

If you want nobility to be a rank or title tied to administrative responsibilities then make the SOC loss permanent.

"The Emperor says you mistakes have been costly. Since you are no longer worthy of supervising the Dagudashaag sector, your family is stripped of its ducal benefits and henceforth you are assigned as Baron of Garoo. Do not make another mistake else the Emperor may not be so forgiving..."

You are a knight Soc 11, you do something to get -1 soc. Sorry you are now a peasant and we are taking your knighthood back :twisted:

Sounds like an excellent character motivation to me, and as many have pointed out, historically valid.

Answers on a post card please

Now that might take a while to reach you...

 

[rinku]

In fact, the expectation that noble rank might be degraded is likely to result in the disgraced noble doing "the honourable thing". ("There's a laspistol in the dresser drawer, old man. You know what to do.")

Suicide as an acceptable act to make up for social disgrace is quite common in many cultures. Romans, Germans, French, English and Japanese immediately spring to mind. This seems to be assiciated with military disgrace, and is probably a common factor for the cultures above, all of whom had strong military cultures underpinning their nobility.

One has to think of the family's honour, don't you know?

 

[rust]

Suicide as an acceptable act to make up for social disgrace is quite common in many cultures. Romans, Germans, French, English and Japanese immediately spring to mind. This seems to be assiciated with military disgrace, and is probably a common factor for the cultures above, all of whom had strong military cultures underpinning their nobility.

Until the Modern Age nobles had only very limited options for their occu-
pations: Estate Management, Politics, Diplomacy, Church, University and
Military.

A noble who wanted to choose a different career, for example as a mer-
chant or artisan, normally had to give up his noble status to do so, be-
cause such occupations were considered dishonourable.

And while a serious mistake in estate management, politics and so on
often can be covered up, a serious military mistake usually is very diffi-
cult to hide - a lost battle is very obviously a lost battle ...

Therefore a noble who failed as a diplomat, etc., often had a chance to
avoid to have to commit suicide, while a noble officer rarely had that op-
portunity.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Until the Modern Age nobles had only very limited options for their occupations: Estate Management, Politics, Diplomacy, Church, University and Military.

Actually, quite often to choose "university" as an occupation one had to be a clergyman (at least in Minor Orders).

Additionally, as a clerical university professor, one might be required not to marry... which would make it a poor choice for nobles.

 

[rust]

Additionally, as a clerical university professor, one might be required not to marry... which would make it a poor choice for nobles.

True, but this was also the case with all the church posts, abbots, bishops
and cardinals also were expected not to marry.
In a way this was not unwelcome, because otherwise too many descen-
dants of a noble family would have split the family's property through in-
heritance.