enderra said:
I thought the question of "stealth in space" had been settled decades ago. There is none.
(Of course, space opera natural laws behave differently so we always have that retreat.)
That said, this was at TL8 if it happened recently, not TL7, but that's a minor point.
Settling questions like stealth is always funny in a sci-fi based game because many of the activities are already violating, or stretching, our understanding of science. Though I find the funnies that "that cannot be done by the laws of science!" statements... which then later get disproven by... wait for it... science! Used to be science said you couldn't fly, but they did. Our understanding of the physical world is far greater than it used to be, but considering we came up with dark matter to explain the weight of the cosmos, and then a decade later Voyager led us to learn that the space between the stars has far more hydrogen in it than we thought. You get the drift, eh?
Who is to say in the future we won't figure out how to convert heat directly to energy which then can be beamed away from the craft via microwaves to just dissipate, thus fixing the thermal issue. If we can have fusion power (which we cannot duplicate), and jump drives (which sidesteps physics), anagathics (an impossibility under current tech), or man-portable fusion generators (whoopsie, another impossibility), why not stealth in space?
As far as the TL7/8 question, some of that gear in operation with the Deep Space Tracking Network can trace it's lineage to TL7, even though overall we might be at TL8. So that's more of a squishy point of view.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
He didn't say "communicated with Voyager" he said "DETECTED Voyager".
We can't detect Voyager at that distance. We are able to listen for it (on frequencies that makes it easier to listen to), but it's too small and too cold to pick up on any detection gear we have currently. We know more or less where it is because we know it's course and velocity (and because it also updates us on it's position). It's not trying to hide.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Take out all the rotational compensation from a ground-based unit and it becomes a lot easier. AGREED, Voyager is trying to be detected, but a normal civilian transponder is also going to be trying to be detected. Turning off your transponder automatically means you are a pirate or smuggler...
It's not hard at all to compensate for planetary rotation. They did that a long time ago by building multiple tracking locations around the globe. Then again the Voyager spacecraft aren't on system's eliptical plane either. If you wanted to sneak up on a planet you could emerge on the far side of the sun, let gravity pull you in, then just use your drives to slingshot around and turn them off again. Neutrino detectors would fail to "see" you because of the sun's interference, the sun's heat would allow you to hide your ship's heat in the mix far better than if you were coming in from deep space, and with a slingshot maneuver you could be travelling at a good clip without having to resort to your drives. Most arguments about hitting a planet always assume the invading fleet is coming in from deep space when that's not required. Coming in from the sun provides you with a lot of options (though you are also stuck in the system while you are in the sun's jump shadow, so hopefully you have fuel to jump out again).
However, if a ship could go "radio silent" it would only have to worry about the heat signature and the neutrino signature etc. which are harder to detect at TL-7 and probably still hard at higher TL's.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
NOW, my counter-argument...
How many ships/probes are going to be local space around a typical TL-7 world within an interstellar setting. If present-day Earth was contacted by the Vilani (you they are right there at Barnard's Star right?) I would suspect dozens of ships at a time would be somewhere inbound or outbound. So there would be a lot more 'noise' at those unique frequencies of energy put out by spaceships and their communicators. By TL-9, near-space is very busy and it might be quite likely that a ship could hide in the background noise of a busy star system. Think of people whispering in a crowded dining room. COULD they be detected, yes, but it will be difficult and there will be a lot of interference from other conversations - ASSUMING you can't use a directional microphone (since you don't know exactly where they are in the room...)
STILL - I think it makes for an interesting idea. Most RPGs assume it is pretty hard to detect a ship in interplanetary space, but actually, it is likely quite easy - doesn't mean you know anything about them other than "they are over there". Also, detecting them like this doesn't give you distance, only direction until you can triangulate or have another means of determining their signal strength, you can't figure out how far away they are.
Yep. A busy star system is going to have a lot of traffic and such. Discrimination of friend/foe will be harder, especially at the distances you need to consider. Flight plans can help with
some of it, but still, you can hide in the open and until they can get close enough to hit you with lidar or radar you are just Freetrader Beowulf, stooging around the system. Until your piratical actions prove otherwise. :mrgreen:
