Definition of Weapon System

Red-24

Mongoose
The forum is getting pretty full with questions and answers but i couldn't find the answer to this.

What is the definition of the term "Weapon System" as referred to in the book?

Is it one entire system type, as in all Phaser-1's, or all Phaser-3's?
Or is it one specific entry of a weapon, as in "Phaser-1, 18", F, AD2..."?

So for page 12, Power Drain, is option 3 "one entire weapon type", or "one specific entry of one weapon type"?

Thanks.
 
Each entry is a weapon system, so yes:
Phaser-1 / 18 / FH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Phaser-1 / 18 / AH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Phaser-3 / 6 / T / 2 / Accurate +1, Kill Zone 2, Precise
Drone / 36 / T / 1 / Devastating +1, Multihit d6, Seeking
is four weapon systems.
 
Can we get an official ruling on this?

Weapon System seems to be interpreted as a weapon type, e.g. if you can only fire one weapon system you are only firing one type of weapon, such as phasers. Each individual entry is a weapon, so when you take a critical hit that loses one random weapon you lose one line entry. I think it's highly ambiguous.
 
This has, I think, been covered in another topic but we need a sticky of Mspranges pronouncements to get everything in one place.

One of the options under power drain is to only fire phasers. Another is to fire a single weapon system/type (cannot remember the exact wording.

You can fire all your phasers OR you can fire your disruptors/Photons/Plasmas etc. Drones are a weapon type since this was mentioned in the Fed G rack/ADD bit since under power drain you cannot fire the G racks as ADDs unless you opt to power the drones as your weapon type.

Each line represents a type of weapon with a number of mounts all sharing the same arc. A line is NOT a single weapon; we have covered this under one of the Drone topics.

Under power drain you can opt to fire plasmas only, this would be all plasmas not just a single plasma because they come on separate lines.

For a critical hit I believe you lose a weapon battery which is a line on the ship stats, this could be a single weapon or the fire control station for those weapons just had an special effects overload and the crew are lying around waiting for the ships medic,
 
As I understand it:

Weapon System and Type are importantly different. Weapon System refers to the line of data, so
Phaser-1 / 18 / FH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
is a single Weapon System.

Power drain allows you to fire ALL, some or one of your phasers OR
a single Weapon System (or line) - not all weapons of that type.

So a Gorn warship for instance could fire all its phasers or one plasma, a Federation warship could fire all its phasers or one photon (with some or all AD) or one drone (with some or all AD)

so in the example given above
Each entry is a weapon system, so yes:
Phaser-1 / 18 / FH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Phaser-1 / 18 / AH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Phaser-3 / 6 / T / 2 / Accurate +1, Kill Zone 2, Precise
Drone / 36 / T / 1 / Devastating +1, Multihit d6, Seeking

this is four weapon systems and under power drain could fire either both Phaser 1's and the Phaser 3 or the Drone or even just fire a single phaser.

if the ship layout was

Phaser-1 / 18 / FH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Phaser-1 / 18 / AH / 2 / Accurate +2, Kill Zone 8, Precise
Drone / 36 / T / 1 / Devastating +1, Multihit d6, Seeking
Drone / 36 / T / 1 / Devastating +1, Multihit d6, Seeking

this is four weapon systems and under power drain could fire either both Phaser 1's or one of the two Drones (but not both) or even just fire a single phaser.
 
So it sounds to me like I'm not the only one who's confused. :?

Personally, I think "weapon system" means every individual weapon of a single "type" on the ship.

When I first read it, what confused me was that power drain allowed "All Phasers" or "One Weapon System". So I thought it must mean only one individual weapon, or else why wouldn't it just say "one weapon system" with phasers being one of the systems. It finally dawned on me that there are 4 "types" of Phasers, therefore, the rule would allow either "up to 4 phaser weapon systems", or just one other "weapon system".

I think, also, it makes logical sense that the intent of the rule is that all of one type of weapon can be powered, not just one individual weapon. For example, you're putting the remaining power into Disruptors, not Phasers, rather than you're putting the remaining power into the Port disruptor.

I think the difference between "an individual weapon" and "every single phaser you have" is too extreme for that to be the intent.

Still, I was looking for an official ruling.
 
To be honest I don't understand how the confusion arose, from my reading and the context of when "weapon system" is used in the rules the only logical conclusion is what Da_Boss and hermitbob said.
 
msprange said:
Hermitbob, Da Boss and Totenkopf are correct. One line = one weapon system.

So just about every Kzinti ship can fire its full drone salvo while under power drain, most every Fed can fire all its photons, most every Disruptor ship can fire all of its disruptors.

The poor plasma races get to fire one, whole plasma torpedo. What is with all the plasma hate round here :lol:

Still there is a slight advantage to it as well, the Kzinti/fed/klingons can lose every Drone/Photon/Disruptor on a single critical whereas the plasma races only lose one torp. Its not much but its something :roll: :wink:
 
Captain Jonah said:
msprange said:
Hermitbob, Da Boss and Totenkopf are correct. One line = one weapon system.

So just about every Kzinti ship can fire its full drone salvo while under power drain, most every Fed can fire all its photons, most every Disruptor ship can fire all of its disruptors.

The poor plasma races get to fire one, whole plasma torpedo. What is with all the plasma hate round here :lol:

Still there is a slight advantage to it as well, the Kzinti/fed/klingons can lose every Drone/Photon/Disruptor on a single critical whereas the plasma races only lose one torp. Its not much but its something :roll: :wink:

Actually no, the C7s Disruptors are split as are the C8s. Further what is the number 1 cause of plasma users suffering Power Drain? Reload. That and most plasma users have decent Phaser 1s for their class so if you're doing something other than reloading, you can still use those. If every faction had the same strenghts it would be a pretty boring game, so I don't know why people keep complaining about "my *blank* is not as good as their *blank*". If everything was "as good" as everything else - we'd be playing with one ship with a different look. Every faction has different strengths AND weaknesses; don't like yours? Switch factions.
 
Totenkopf said:
To be honest I don't understand how the confusion arose, from my reading and the context of when "weapon system" is used in the rules the only logical conclusion is what Da_Boss and hermitbob said.
I'll explain how the confusion arose. I don't play SFB of FC, so I am learning the rules by simply reading the book as written and reading the forums.

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What was said about "Weapons" as I read the book:

On page 2, the last paragraph talks about fire arcs that... "the various weapons can fire into.
On page 3, a ship's roster is described in detail. Here they mention Weapons in bold.

Weapons: ... Every weapon is defined by its Range, which Fire Arc it can fire into and the number of Attack Dice it uses.

The title above the column in the Ship Roster says Weapon. It doesn't mention Weapon System so I've already made the assumption that each entry is just called a Weapon.

On page 4, under the heading Attack Phase it states that ships "are allowed to fire their weapons".

On page 5 the term "weaponry" is used in the first paragraph, but this is flavour text so I don't take it as a "game term".

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What was said about "Weapon Systems" as I read the book:

On page 7, the term "weapon suites" is mentioned in the first paragraph, but again this is flavour text, so I don't take it as a game term, however, under the heading Attacking it states:

"Each weapon system listed on a ship's roster has an Attack Dice (AD)score listed." then later says "If a weapon system is firing at a target great than half it's range..."

I swear that as I read through the book, I didn't note the change in term from weapon to weapon system until page 8. On page 8, there is a bolded heading Weapon Systems in Star Fleet. Here it states:

All weapons mounted on combat vessels can be graded into a series of designs, as listed here.

It then provides a table in which the first column, Weapon, lists types Disruptor, Drone, Phaser-1... It doesn't say "a Weapon Systems can be defined by...", but I make the assumumption that Type of weapon equates to Weapon System.

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That's how the confusion arose. Different terms were used for the same thing, and only one of the terms was "defined", and it was the first one used.

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For those of you who bothered to read through my "analysis" of how this rule comes across as confusing, I commend you for your patience.

For the Mongoose staff, I am already a devoted follower and I love this game, even though I've only played one game and just finally got some ships today. My intention is to provide feedback that helps make the second printing of the rules much clearer so that it will be easier to to get more people into ACTA: Star Fleet. This is a selfish desire, so that I can ensure the game keeps selling so that I can "create" more opponents in my area.

I've already started to compile a list of things that I (a seasoned gamer) have found very confusing about the rules, and ways that I feel the rule book could be updated to make it clear to everyone (new and seasoned gamers). Heck, I'd be willing to rewrite it for you. ;-)
 
Red-24 said:
For the Mongoose staff, I am already a devoted follower and I love this game, even though I've only played one game and just finally got some ships today. My intention is to provide feedback that helps make the second printing of the rules much clearer so that it will be easier to to get more people into ACTA: Star Fleet. This is a selfish desire, so that I can ensure the game keeps selling so that I can "create" more opponents in my area.

Wish there were more selfish people like you :)
 
I have been compiling a list of people's questions and Matt's answers as well; to be printed out and used as an in-game reference for when questions come up. :)
 
nice thought

If you can make it a pdf then it could go on a "FAQ / and game resources thread" - if you PM LBH he should be able to set up a Sticky Thread for it.
 
The list is nothing fancy; just a cut and paste of people's questions and Matt's answers. Anyone can do the same.

Just search for posts by Matt in say, the last 60 days, go through those, cut and paste and there you go. :D

I could convert to PDF and post on my blog site (only used for file hosting), but since it's an ongoing, living page, it would get to be a pain reconverting and uploading again every time I add something.

I could upload as a .docx file every time though. DONE, in .docx format. See here for the doc:

http://travellerdocs.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/actasf-rulings-from-matt-sprange.docx
 
billclo said:
I could upload as a .docx file every time though. DONE, in .docx format.
Any chance you could do a save-as to Office-97 .doc format instead of .docx format, please?? Thanks!
 
billclo said:
I could convert to PDF and post on my blog site (only used for file hosting), but since it's an ongoing, living page, it would get to be a pain reconverting and uploading again every time I add something.
You could try PDFCreator:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/

This acts like a printer but "prints" to a PDF file instead of paper.
 
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