Deck plans -- scale?
- Thread starter Sgt_G
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Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
'Traveller' has "almost" universally been 1 square = 1.5 metres.
Okay, the ship I'm drafting deck plans for is 108 meters long by 27.5 meters wide, not counting Warp Drive nacelles, with a total of eight decks.
At 1:1000 scale / 1mm = 1m / 1cm = 10m, I can fit the entire ship on an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. That's all eight decks, a side cut-away view, and top & front plane views with warp engines.
I haven't printed it out at 1:100 / 1cm=1m scale yet, but I'm sure at that level all the furniture and equipment should be readily identifiable. Each deck will print at 11 x 42.5 inches. Or they could be printed split for and aft (48 / 60 meters) at the "neck" of the ship. The aft part would print at 11 x 23.5 inches, and the front at 11 x 19 inches.
Obviously, it would be up to the publisher to decide what scale to use for he final product. But what do you think a playable size would be? Do you normally place figurines on the paper while playing, or just use them for reference to look at?
At 1:1000 scale / 1mm = 1m / 1cm = 10m, I can fit the entire ship on an 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. That's all eight decks, a side cut-away view, and top & front plane views with warp engines.
I haven't printed it out at 1:100 / 1cm=1m scale yet, but I'm sure at that level all the furniture and equipment should be readily identifiable. Each deck will print at 11 x 42.5 inches. Or they could be printed split for and aft (48 / 60 meters) at the "neck" of the ship. The aft part would print at 11 x 23.5 inches, and the front at 11 x 19 inches.
Obviously, it would be up to the publisher to decide what scale to use for he final product. But what do you think a playable size would be? Do you normally place figurines on the paper while playing, or just use them for reference to look at?
Sgt_G said:
Both. Smaller ships that can fit on one or two sheets of paper (but no more than 4) I would place figures on, generally printed at a scale of 1 cm per square/5 feet/1.5 meters. Anything the players can conceivably cross from one side to another in a round or three.
For bigger ships, I would just use the deckplans for reference, and have an actual miniature-scaled map only for the area the battle is taking place in.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Two squares to the inch is roughly in scale for 15mm minis, while 6 squares per inch (the CT Traders and Gunboats scale) is about right for 6mm minis.
GypsyComet: Cross-posting, didn't have time to read your post.
Jeraa: Okay, good to know. Thanks.
At that scale 1:150 / 1cm=1.5m / 0.667cm = 1 meter, the plans would print out 7-1/4 inch wide by 28-1/2 (15-3/4 + 12-3/4) inch long. They won't fit on a standard 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, not without going to a 1:300 to 1:400 scale. Given that, I think I'd like to see them publiched at the 1:100 scale.
For the 1:1000 scale / single-sheet printing, I will have to make a copy of the plans, and then strip our all the furniture (and maybe some walls) and replace them with labels BRIDGE / CREW QUATERS / SICK BAY / OFFICER QUARTERS / etc/ etc/ etc. A chair is 50 centimeters wide, so at that scale, it's a bit more than a dot. I can tell what everything is (but I'm the one that drew it all) and even I need a magnifying glass to see stuff.
By the way: I just looked on-line and saw a couple sample images of Traveler deck plans. These had the walls following right along the 1.5-meter grid lines. Sorry, but I'm not doing that on this project. I started this long before the plan to port PRIME DIRECTIVE into Traveler, so I made things the "right" size for real life, not bound by some arbitrary grid line. And seeing as I am about 95% done with this version, and had to abandoned two previous versions, I really Really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y do not want to scrape it to redo it AGAIN just to fit a grid pattern.
Jeraa: Okay, good to know. Thanks.
At that scale 1:150 / 1cm=1.5m / 0.667cm = 1 meter, the plans would print out 7-1/4 inch wide by 28-1/2 (15-3/4 + 12-3/4) inch long. They won't fit on a standard 8-1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, not without going to a 1:300 to 1:400 scale. Given that, I think I'd like to see them publiched at the 1:100 scale.
For the 1:1000 scale / single-sheet printing, I will have to make a copy of the plans, and then strip our all the furniture (and maybe some walls) and replace them with labels BRIDGE / CREW QUATERS / SICK BAY / OFFICER QUARTERS / etc/ etc/ etc. A chair is 50 centimeters wide, so at that scale, it's a bit more than a dot. I can tell what everything is (but I'm the one that drew it all) and even I need a magnifying glass to see stuff.
By the way: I just looked on-line and saw a couple sample images of Traveler deck plans. These had the walls following right along the 1.5-meter grid lines. Sorry, but I'm not doing that on this project. I started this long before the plan to port PRIME DIRECTIVE into Traveler, so I made things the "right" size for real life, not bound by some arbitrary grid line. And seeing as I am about 95% done with this version, and had to abandoned two previous versions, I really Really REALLY R-E-A-L-L-Y do not want to scrape it to redo it AGAIN just to fit a grid pattern.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Sgt_G said:
No need to. The grid is there to aid combat, and most of us follow it for the walls because it also makes the tonnages simple (two floor grid is a displacement ton in the (slight) majority of editions of Traveller; TNE, T4, GURPS Traveller, and Traveller Hero excepted). Since PD likely won't worry about displacement tons quite so much, and SFU ships (or at least those directly derived from Trek) have established architectural standards, there is no need to follow the 'standards' of the Third Imperium.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Two squares equals a ton... the actual physical scale of a "square" is relative. With modern computer graphics programmes one can make them any size one wants.
Mind you it was always possible with a photocopier and the scale slider.
Mind you it was always possible with a photocopier and the scale slider.
So, I received an e-mail from someone asking "A ship of over a hundred meter long? Why so flipping big?"
Ah, guys, I'm doing the Federation Police Cutter, which is the SMALLEST ship in the fleet:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/Mongoose/Starline%202500/Federation/Fed_POL_2_-_side.jpg
http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/Mongoose/Starline%202500/Federation/Fed_POL_2_-_top.jpg
Then he went on to ask if I would email him said deck plans. No! I will submit them to ADB, and with any luck they will publish them.
Ah, guys, I'm doing the Federation Police Cutter, which is the SMALLEST ship in the fleet:
http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/Mongoose/Starline%202500/Federation/Fed_POL_2_-_side.jpg
http://www.starfleetgames.com/images/Mongoose/Starline%202500/Federation/Fed_POL_2_-_top.jpg
Then he went on to ask if I would email him said deck plans. No! I will submit them to ADB, and with any luck they will publish them.
GypsyComet
Emperor Mongoose
Ships in the Third Imperium setting get that large, just not very often *in print*. Trek ships are often big sprawly affairs by comparison.
Sgt_G said:
Largest in length or displacement?
Do you want the largest ship that is stated up, or the largest ship given deckplans?
The Tigress is stated up in Fighting Ships, is 500,000 displacement tons, and has 37 pages of deckplans. But as its mostly a sphere, its not a long as it could of been had it been made in the shape of a wedge.
Yeah, I meant that has published deck plans for it.
I crunshed some numbers. Based on what was said up-topic, that each 1.5 meter square / 2.25 square-meters is a half-ton of displacement (within Traveller rules), I calculated that the Federation Police Cutter is about 3200 - 3250 tons, and the Burke-class Frigate is 5000 - 5200 tons. Nick Blank made the frigate's deck plans; they were published a few years ago.
I crunshed some numbers. Based on what was said up-topic, that each 1.5 meter square / 2.25 square-meters is a half-ton of displacement (within Traveller rules), I calculated that the Federation Police Cutter is about 3200 - 3250 tons, and the Burke-class Frigate is 5000 - 5200 tons. Nick Blank made the frigate's deck plans; they were published a few years ago.
What size mini do most people use for Traveller? I see 15mm mentioned a lot, so am I correct in assuming that's the "standard"? And when they say it's a 15mm mini, does that mean a 6-foot tall character is represented by a 15mm tall mini? I'm trying to figure out what the scale of 15 mm is.
Sgt_G said:
A miniatures scale is whatever a 6' tall human would be for that scale. So with a 15mm scale miniatures, a 6' human would be 15mm. The problem is companies uses different standards to measure their miniatures. Some measure from the bottom of the feet to the eyes, while others measure to the top of the head. Some may include the base as well. So there is some variation even between miniatures of the same scale.
15mm is popular with modern wargames. I believe that Striker was 15mm scale, so it became the standard for Traveller.
28mm is what is generally standard, as it is what is used for Warhammer/Warhammer 40k from Games Workshop, and the D&D and Star Wars miniatures put out by WotC (which are actually 30mm, but close enough).
For outdoor or longer range scenes, I prefer a scale of 1 cm=1.5meters/5 feet. I think thats roughly 12mm scale. It allows more area to be displayed on the game table, which helps with the range for guns. For indoor or shorter range scenes, I prefer a scale of 1 inch=1.5meters/5 feet, which should be about 30mm scale. It allows more details to be displayed on the map.
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