Danger - Product Lines crossing!!!

[CharlieMonster]

I'm toying with running B5 again having overdosed on Vids at the weekend, it has also occurred to me an RQ/B5 hybrid might be worth the effort. Obviously I could wait for SpaceQuest (I think it is no. 12,743 on the Spurious Rumour Table, but I'm sure it was mentioned at some point :lol: ). I was surprised how few of the basic skills need changing, but I've come unstuck with Telepathy. Do I make it an advanced skill or bolt it on in a "Magic System" stylee?

 

[Rurik]

I'm toying with running B5 again having overdosed on Vids at the weekend, it has also occurred to me an RQ/B5 hybrid might be worth the effort. Obviously I could wait for SpaceQuest (I think it is no. 12,743 on the Spurious Rumour Table, but I'm sure it was mentioned at some point :lol: ). I was surprised how few of the basic skills need changing, but I've come unstuck with Telepathy. Do I make it an advanced skill or bolt it on in a "Magic System" stylee?

Hmm. Depends. If you envision telepathy as latent in all characters I would make it an Advanced Skill.

If it is only in certain 'special' individuals, or you want to add more effects other than just communication (mind reading or mind control for example) it may be better treated as a 'Magic System'.

 

[Utgardloki]

I think Telepathy can be considered an advanced skill. Perhaps Magic Points can be used to track psionic energy expendature (making the Telepathy skill moot when you're out of magic points, renamed to Psionic Reserves, of course). Advanced telepathic abilities could be modelled using Legendary Abilities.

That's just my two cents.

 

[CharlieMonster]

Utgardloki Wrote
Advanced telepathic abilities could be modelled using Legendary Abilities.

I'm liking that idea, consider it half-inched!

Utgardloki Wrote:
Perhaps Magic Points can be used to track psionic energy expendature (making the Telepathy skill moot when you're out of magic points, renamed to Psionic Reserves, of course).

Actually I was toying with the idea of a Fatigue-like system with cumulative penalties to factor in a bit of dramatic uncertainty, though PSI points would be the easier route.

Rurik Wrote:
If it is only in certain 'special' individuals, or you want to add more effects other than just communication (mind reading or mind control for example) it may be better treated as a 'Magic System'.[/b]

B5 Canon is clear it is only present in 0.1% of the population (in Mind War) although I guess potentially any PC could fall into that section.

I'm thinking of hinging Psionic ability on Charisma and Psionic fatigue on POW. I reckon a Teep with CHA 7 would be a P1 with 1 added to the "P" score per point of CHA, making Talia CHA 12 & Byron or Bester CHA 18. (Bester might be an S.O.B. but he is a charismatic S.O.B.! 8) ).

Utgardloki Wrote:
That's just my two cents. Shouldn't that be "two credits"

 

[mthomason]

Adding my vote to Advanced Skill (for the purpose of determining success/failure and opposed tests) with a seperate list of abilities.

I see it as a latent thing, even if the majority of the population are only a P0.1, and read the 0.1% as being those with enough psychic ability to register as a P1. Anyone with sufficent willpower/training should be able to get a chance to detect a scan on themselves, for example (and possibly even a chance to resist it). However, only those with a "true" rating would have access to any kind of ability to use that skill with. It's also worth looking at G'Kar's use of dust and reading that as unlocking his latent ability once some kind of genetic switch was flipped.

 

[Deleriad]

I've thought about this on and off. I've never read the B5 rules so I am only going off the show.

In the show there are essentially only a small number of levels of psionic capability: Latent teeps, P5 rated, P12 rated and above.

Tempting though it is to correlate psi with POW or CHA or to make a new Psi stat on 3d6 I think that would be mistake. Personally I would have Psionics be a "trait" (like Darksense for example). So, for example, you could say that for a cost of 10, 20 or 30 points you can buy the potential to be latent, P5 or P12. Keep above P12 for NPCs and plot devices.

Then I would have a small number of psi skills.

Psi: which allows basic reading of background info and blocking it out. Can be learnt by any Psi rating. This skill can work to enhance any Influence skill and perception skill. It can also be used to detect Psi being used, help read the intentions of others. Finally it can be used to form a gestalt

Then advanced skills
Probe: the ability to interrogate: P12 or better.
Inflict Pain: does what it says on the tin. P12 only. It's actually a form of probing which simply focuses on shredding neurons with no interest in information retrieval.
Block: An ability to completely negate Psi abilities, to twist the perceptions of mundanes and so on, make it seem as though the person is essentially invisible.
Reprogram: goes beyond probing to reorder thoughts, networks and so on. It's the skill used to create trojan horses and so on. Takes a lot of time.

Then some exotics
Telekenesis: legendary ability for P12 and above.
Quantum Perception: see the universe in a grain of sand. Legendary ability.

So for example
latent teep: gets Psi skill at base score but cannot increase it
P5: gets Psi skill at basic and can increase. Gets other skills at base but cannot increase.
P12: gets other skills at base and can improve.

I think one thing that is important is that Psi is not "Saturday morning cartoon magic" in a different form. There shouldn't be psionic blasts, Psi shields and so on. Psi Cops are scary as much for attitude as anything else. The effects on Shadow and shadow tech are an outgrowth of vulnerability to being probed etc.

Range is touch or sight except when the amplifying nature of hyperspace kicks in.

The key is that Psi Cops and other psi characters are not mages or clerics. They are characters just like others with a gift that gives them an edge but also creates some vulnerabilities.

 

[mthomason]

They are characters just like others with a gift that gives them an edge but also creates some vulnerabilities.

And, indeed, responsibilities. Any human teep is going to find they don't get to wander around doing their own thing...

 

[CharlieMonster]

I can see you've been thinking a lot about this one Deleriad and I agree with a lot of what you say.

There are a few other bits of pieces in the show, you missed Telepathy for one thing. Although I guess that's covered in Psi. There's also the Precog ability that the show's Teeps demonstrate, albeit as a product of picking up background stuff like peoples intentions or in Lita's case Vorlon programming. I'd probably just use it as a plot device to be fair.

I wouldn't tie Telekinesis to the P-level to be honest, it's rare, but I look on it, not so much as a power thing, more like being left-handed or being able to roll your tongue, some people can do it, some people can't. Obviously I would also have to factor in the fact that 99.99% of "Teeks" are completely barking!

Don't worry I'm not looking to the D&D Psionics handbook for inspiration :lol: We'll save the whizz-bangs for the Techno-Mages, now that'll be a bugger to sort out. To be honest I never really liked the way they are handled in the B5 RPG, but as of yet, I've not been able to get my hands on the Technomage trilogy which presumbly explains most of that.

 

[Utgardloki]

I'm liking that idea, consider it half-inched!

Quote:
Utgardloki Wrote:
Perhaps Magic Points can be used to track psionic energy expendature (making the Telepathy skill moot when you're out of magic points, renamed to Psionic Reserves, of course).

Actually I was toying with the idea of a Fatigue-like system with cumulative penalties to factor in a bit of dramatic uncertainty, though PSI points would be the easier route.

I was thinking of doing the same thing for fantasy magic. Haven't figured out exactly how it would work.

For the D6 system I was working on a Battlestar Galactica concept where the Battlestar has to pass through a region controlled by characters like Exalted's Abyssals. The theory is that after going through a period like that described in the B5 series, humanity split into psionic and non-psionic branches, with the non-psionics becoming the Colonials, while the psionics evolved into the Abyssals. If this makes sense, then maybe the Exalted concept of spending something like "Essence" for legendary abilities which may have other legendary abilities as prerequisites could make sense.

Of course, the nomenclature would be different, and if we combine B5 and Battlestar Galactica in that way, the B5 psionics would not have the abilities of the Abyssals. However it might make for interesting time travel scenarios.

 

[Exubae]

Perhaps a PSI book is the way to go;
It would also go a long way to tie in an MRQ version of Judge Dredd as well (never been happy with d20... nothing wrong with their content just have an allergy to levels )

 

[Richard]

My saddo 100+pg reworking of RQ3 as the uninspiringly renamed 'Starquest' many moons back used the sorcery magic system as the basis for psionics/psi-powers. Grouped and renamed the various appropriate spell effects by type (Telekinesis, Teleport, Telepathy etc. Kind of 'Schools of Psionics') and fiddled with some details and power levels. Using sorcery gives you a lot of detail and background and cuts down a bit on GM effort.

 

[Utgardloki]

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:59 am Post subject:

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Perhaps a PSI book is the way to go;
It would also go a long way to tie in an MRQ version of Judge Dredd as well (never been happy with d20... nothing wrong with their content just have an allergy to levels )

The problem with a PSI book would be one that currently meets the D&D Psionics book -- no matter what they do, a lot of people won't like it.

Psionics in one setting, such as Babylon 5, may be different from psionics in another setting, such as Iron Kingdoms. (Psionics is not an official part of Iron Kingdoms, but I've thought of ways it could be introduced.) No one set of rules will satisfy everybody.

IMHO, one of the strengths of the Runequest system vs D&D and other fantasy systems, is that it is even more flexible than GURPS, and thus better able to support a wide variety of settings. Psionics should be similarly flexible.

If they do a PSI book for Runequest, they should take the example of the D20 Modern books, and provide three different ways that psionics can be integrated into a campaign. And of course I expect the same flexibility for psionics as currently exists for magic.

 

[CharlieMonster]

D20 Modern

*shudder* :?

 

[Utgardloki]

I'm not talking about implementing the D20 Modern system, which is easy enough to do for psionics in Runeqeust, if that's what you want to do.

I'm talking about the way that the system was defined, in that GMs are given and actually forced to make a choice about how the system they define is going to be used in a campaign. That is a flexibility even the MRQ rulebook does not have; Runecasting is described as working the same way in every setting, even though a setting like Iron Kingdoms or Runequest Modern may need to modify things a little bit.

We can contrast this to psionics and magic in D&D, where it is set up so that GMs can decide whether magic is common or rare, beloved or despised, but to make changes to the system itself requires great courage and careful thought.

Certainly, I would not model Runequest psionics the way it is modelled in D20 Modern.

 

[CharlieMonster]

I'm not talking about implementing the D20 Modern system, which is easy enough to do for psionics in Runeqeust, if that's what you want to do.

I realise that, it's just an involuntary response, my contact with D20 modern has not been a joyful experience!

I think in a generic SF setting, the three options is a good idea, but in an established universe, like the B5, the system must of neccessity match the established "laws" of the setting so finding the best, ideally simple match is the way to go.

I think I will use a skill based system, with PSI doing the basic stuff: Telepathy, Probes & defences, and a few specials like Misdirection, Mind Editing, ESP & Neural Control. And of course the very special Telekinesis with accompanying rules on "Being-a-total-fruit-loop" which we are told most "Teeks" are.

I have also decided to make PSI usage affect fatigue rather than points, with each Psychic test being accompanied by a Resilience check modified by the power used. The idea is loosely swiped from the CODA magic system in LOTR. I may also impose a cumulative per-usage modifier which can only be removed by rest. This is because Teeps who overstretch themselves in the show do appear to experience the effects of fatigue. It's also a nice dramatic tool.

 

[Deleriad]

I think I will use a skill based system, with PSI doing the basic stuff: Telepathy, Probes & defences, and a few specials like Misdirection, Mind Editing, ESP & Neural Control. And of course the very special Telekinesis with accompanying rules on "Being-a-total-fruit-loop" which we are told most "Teeks" are.

I have also decided to make PSI usage affect fatigue rather than points, with each Psychic test being accompanied by a Resilience check modified by the power used. The idea is loosely swiped from the CODA magic system in LOTR. I may also impose a cumulative per-usage modifier which can only be removed by rest. This is because Teeps who overstretch themselves in the show do appear to experience the effects of fatigue. It's also a nice dramatic tool.

That sounds like what I would roughly do. The only issue would be how you relate the skills to p rating. Admittedly, P-rating is a human measure and Minbari or Centauri teeps might not work exactly the same.

The lack of canon about non-human teeps also gives you the option for giving non-human teeps different skills.

I think in terms of B5Quest you probably want to have enough skills to force the PC's to focus on just a few especially as most people who are teeps in the show seem to use telepathy in a supporting role.

I wonder if its worthwhile tying things into resilience; if ever a teep's resilience gets brought down to zero then they get to the roll on the "I'm a psychic teapot" table. If using Psi skills tends to force fatigue tests and another side effect is reducing resilience by X amount then once their resilience is reduced to zero they start to wig out.

 

[CharlieMonster]

they get to the roll on the "I'm a psychic teapot" table.

What a fantastic name, I like it!