Cryonautics

Tom Kalbfus

Mongoose
Imagine a Traveller setting where there was no FTL ships or communication, but there was spaceships and cold sleep. substitute Air cars for grav vehicles and put them in an interesting star system, Say Alpha Centauri for instance, place an Earth like World there for them to explore. and oh by the way, all of these colonists came from out time. They are cryonauts, people in their dying years are approached by an organization that wants to recruit dead people for an interstellar voyage lasting one thousand years. the figure the starship will reach a maximum speed of one percent of the speed of light by accelerating to the midpoint then turning around and slowing down for the rest of the voyage, all the colonists will be in cold sleep until they get there. the average velocity is one two hundredth the speed of light, taking 880 years of voyage time. When the colonists awaken they are on the surface of the planet.

What do you think of this idea?
 
Not sure why you need people "in their dying years".

Old people are not very physically capable in an exploration setting.

Standard Traveller characters (30-38 years old) make much more sense, or even a mixture.

Volunteers for such a mission would likely fill a spaceship (see the recent applications for a one-way mission to Mars). Couples would be common as would families (perhaps).

Overall, nothing wrong with your concept. You could make it really interesting and have TWO habitable planets (one around the yellow star and one around the orange star). Different habitability levels (the one around the orange star is likely tidally locked). Other worlds to explore, pretty cool idea for a hard-science type of setting.
 
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Not sure why you need people "in their dying years".

Old people are not very physically capable in an exploration setting.
Let me explain, the process of being frozen for 1000 years involves dying, and these are not only old people, but also young people who are terminally ill, for which the technology does not yet exist to save them, all we can do is freeze them after they die. You are not going to get a young healthy person to volunteer to freeze himself, that would be technically suicide, as we don't have the technology yet to revive people who are frozen, but think of this, we also don't yet have the technology to build a starship. There is a real world organization that specializes in freezing dead people for later revival called the Alcore Institute.
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Standard Traveller characters (30-38 years old) make much more sense, or even a mixture.

Volunteers for such a mission would likely fill a spaceship (see the recent applications for a one-way mission to Mars). Couples would be common as would families (perhaps).
Maybe not. Imagine a future where there is a starship, but its fusion engines can only reach a maximum of 1% of the speed of light, and this only after a long slow acceleration with a fusion powered ion drive. Chemical rockets boost the starship to Solar escape velocity, and once on an escape trajectory, the slow but highly efficient ion engines accelerate the starship gradually over 440 years to 3,000 kilometers per second, and over another 440 years those same engines slow the ship down to match the velocity of Alpha Centauri. The ship is not a generation ship, that would be too expensive, all the organization can afford is a modest sized starship, not a worldship. Lets suppose they also have the technology to revive frozen dead people, the technique is not 100%, and its not even certain that they could be revived after 880 years. Anyone living volunteering for such a mission in the future can not be certain of ever being revived, they might be volunteering for an early death, but if a person is dying anyway, it might be a lot easier to get him or her to volunteer, if you give him or her hope that he might live again and explore another planet perhaps. Old Age is one cause of death, but there are many others like cancer, heart disease and so forth. Say an organization such as Alcore approaches a dying patient and offers to freeze them after death on the condition that they volunteer for a future interstellar mission which may occur when the technology develops. There is no guarantee that any such patient will be successfully revived, but since they are dying anyway, they have nothing to lose.


Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Overall, nothing wrong with your concept. You could make it really interesting and have TWO habitable planets (one around the yellow star and one around the orange star). Different habitability levels (the one around the orange star is likely tidally locked). Other worlds to explore, pretty cool idea for a hard-science type of setting.

Some of the revived people will be digital persons, that is their frozen bodies are sliced and scanned one microscopic layer at a time and the information fed into a computer, there a computer constructs a 3 dimensional model of the deceased person down to the cellular level, and within the simulation it replaces each frozen cell with a simulated living cell, and then runs a simulation of a living person with the deceased's memories and personality, the simulation begins on the first day of the mission, when it launches from Earth orbit, the simulation is run at 1/1000th of real time, so for every 1000 seconds, one second of time is simulated within the computer, so the 1000 year journey only seems to take 1 year for the digital people in the simulation. Again most people don't want to be frozen and taken apart cell by cell to be scanned into the computer, because there is the question of whether it will actually be them or only a copy that thinks its them, most people are not willing to do this if there is the option that they can go on living in their current bodies without this uncertainty. Being already dead or going to die removes this problem. If you know you are going to die and there is no cure, wouldn't you be ore willing to volunteer for this that if you were perfectly healthy and can go on living, but if you choose this, you would first have to die, because freezing you kills you. After all if you are frozen, your heat stops beating and there is no brain activity, that means you would be technically dead!

You may have noticed the trip only takes 880 years, not the full 1000. The other 120 years are used to terraform the planet so that its habitable for humans. The atmosphere needs to be modified a little so humans can breath it, forests are grown and other revived animals and plants from Earth are placed on the planet's surface. During the 880 years outbound the Digital Crew continually receives downloads from Earth updating on various technological advances that occur during the outbound mission. Upon arrival the starship prints out the various devices and equipment using 3-d printers and utilizing native resources such as asteroids to get the materials that aren't brought from the Solar System. For the digital crew, 1000 years seems to take only one year. Also using organic printers human cells are printed to form new bodies for the digital crew when they arrive in-system and the planet is ready for their habitation.
 
The usual joke is that by the time they arrive, they find the planet terraformed and a ticker tape parade awaiting them, the guests of honour themselves and their closest descendants and relatives.
 
Slow starships are easier to build than fast ones. For crossing the interstellar void in a slow starship the barrier is time. Will there be someone waiting in 3014? I don't know. With conventional laws of physics, the faster one goes, the larger proportion of the original spaceship will be fuel. There is a big difference between 1% of the speed of light and 10% of the speed of light. 10% is pretty much the limit of a fusion powered drive, and that is with multiple stages of fusion rockets. Another limit is acceleration, if you are going to accelerate quickly, you use up your fuel pretty fast, and you need to carry more of it. I think on a limited budget, the easiest barrier to cross is time, rather than velocity. The Voyager Spacecraft can cross the void between the stars in tens of thousands of years, consequently this starship, I'm talking about can go 10 times as fast, and can reach Alpha Centauri in "only" one thousand years. When your already dead, you can take as much time as you need. If you wait for the breakthrough on fast starships, that breakthrough may never arrive and you can wait indefinitely! Its hard to predict when a breakthrough in physics will occur, since these things are unexpected.
 
But why would they build a cryo-ship if they had no way to revive the folks in the first place? If they could build such a ship then they would likely have the means to revive the people, making it unnecessary to use dying people.

And 880 years is such a long time that in all likelihood folks here would build a faster ship in the mean time. As it is there are plans on the drawing board for anti-matter ships. The only problem now is getting that much anti-matter. But in the same time that people could build the ship you described they could also probably synthesize the needed fuel. And an anti-matter ship is estimated to be able to make the trip in 20 years.
 
JRoss said:
And 880 years is such a long time that in all likelihood folks here would build a faster ship in the mean time. As it is there are plans on the drawing board for anti-matter ships. The only problem now is getting that much anti-matter. But in the same time that people could build the ship you described they could also probably synthesize the needed fuel. And an anti-matter ship is estimated to be able to make the trip in 20 years.

So you get their with your cyro ship and find their is already a well established colony their with the means to revive you...
 
JRoss said:
But why would they build a cryo-ship if they had no way to revive the folks in the first place? If they could build such a ship then they would likely have the means to revive the people, making it unnecessary to use dying people.

And 880 years is such a long time that in all likelihood folks here would build a faster ship in the mean time. As it is there are plans on the drawing board for anti-matter ships. The only problem now is getting that much anti-matter. But in the same time that people could build the ship you described they could also probably synthesize the needed fuel. And an anti-matter ship is estimated to be able to make the trip in 20 years.
If you got antimatter, what else can you build besides a starship?
You can build a bomb, that's what, and an antimatter bomb, pound for pound releases as much energy as 100 thermonuclear bombs! So far we've only lived with the atomic bomb since 1945 and with the thermonuclear bomb since 1953, that is 60 years. We survived 60 years in a World with thermonuclear bombs, what were the chances of that? We don't really know because there is not enough information, but lets suppose the chances of us surviving until now without a nuclear war was 60% and we got lucky. The probability is 0.6 over a 60 year period, so how many 60 year periods is there in 880 years? 14.667 my calculator says, now to find the probability of surviving 880 years We simply take 0.6 to the exponent of 14.667 and the result is 0.000557 or 0.0557%
Lets assume the chances of not having a nuclear war in 60 years is 99%, that means the chances of not having a nuclear war in 880 years is 86.3%. We don't know what the actual probability of what nuclear war is, but I think its a fair assumption that it could be from 0.60% to 0.99%. If we launch the ship in 2074, we might have another 60% chance of surviving until that point or itcould be 99%, we just don't know. But I do know that the chances of our surviving until 2074 is probably greater than our chances to survive (as a society) to 3014 AD. Take me for example: I was born in 1967, I could live to be 73 years old, which would bring me to 2040, now lets say I'm a patient in a hospital bed dying of cancer in 2040, and somebody approaches me and asks if I would like to be frozen after I die, and while they can't promise anything, perhaps they would be able to revive me and cure whatever ails me in a few decades. So I die in 2040, I am stored in liquid nitrogen for 34 years, in that time they construct a starship in orbit, a space elevator is built greatly reducing the cost of sending things into space etc. An engine is developed which could accelerate a spaceship to 3000 km/second, it requires a fusion reactor to power it and an ion drive to propel it, Huge fins radiate waste heat from the reactor. Meanwhile humans are colonizing the Solar System, AIs are being built, more experimentation with nanotechnology occurs. People hold their breaths, and we survive until 2072. The ship is launched, huge chemical boosters boost the ship to Solar escape velocity, and then the fusion reactor goes online and the ion drives glow an eerie blue as charged particles are accelerated out the back at a substantial fraction of the speed of light. Since we have AI, the AI control the starship, the AI stays in communication with Earth for as long as it can, updating technologies as appropriate. Varius 3-d printers produce the components of the various technologies downloaded, new chips and circuits are fabricated, software is uploaded and technology stays current as much as possible as the ship moves out of the Solar System. Maybe at some point human civilization destroys itself, or maybe it doesn't, we just don't know, maybe robots take over, maybe nanotechnology takes over, maybe humans become extinct, all except the ones in the ship as it moves further and further out. if there is a welcoming committee at Alpha Centauri, fin but what if there is not? If we did not send out the ship, we would be extinct, if we did, we may have yet another chance to survive on another planet.
 
JRoss said:
I guess, but why bank on that to begin with?
That is what insurance policies are for. If one is 20 years old, one can assume that they are healthy and don't need term life insurance, but you don't really know, you could die next year. Sending out a cryoship is like buying an insurance policy for the human race. if we survive as a species, it would be just like if you as an individual bought a term life insurance policy and did not need it, because you did not die.
 
Volunteers? Convicts?

It is the greatest adventure. Being among the first to stand on a planet orbiting a different star.

You may get an assortment of misfits and loners. People who just don't fit in here and who think life will be better there. May people deemed too violent for a civilized overpopulated earth will be considered appropriate for an untamed wilderness.

Maybe Earth is so overpopulated that the one-child policy of China is a dream. Most people are on forced sterilization and only the elites and those deemed genetically superior are allowed to reproduce... but.... if you go to Alpha Centauri you not only can have as many kids as you want - you are encouraged to have many.

Maybe couples caught reproducing without permission will be sentenced to join the new colony.

Life on Earth may be fairly unpleasant, and the elites see some value in being able to move somewhere else. Maybe the first colonial ships are just to get things started. What do they do when the military shows up with a family of the new King?
(that could be a problem a future generation will have to deal with, but it can explain why Earth is going through the expense to send a colonial expedition out.
 
Lots of science fiction for slower than light colonial ships.

Larry Niven wrote a considerable amount.

Legacy of Heorot (with Jerry Pournelle) is a good one to read.
 
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