Crowded Hours

[Trantor]

These days I bought Crowded Hours. I bought it without opening it, Traveller is imo the worst designed (concerning the layout, not the rules) rpg I buy, so I didn't expect much.

But Crowded Hours topped all other books - I don't think that I bought a rpg with SUCH a boring layout since the dawn of affordable computer aided layout. The main pages look like they were "designed" with a text editor (single column with endless lines over the whole page), the tables are just horrible, some of the very very few illustrations are beyond everthing I would print in a book, some deck plans are 72dpi, a subsector map is blurred and distorted. Interior Design of the book is 0 of 10 points. And these are just some of the things I found.

I paid a LOT of money for the book, I am sure, the scenarios in it are good and I will keep it, but Mongoose: the design of the content really is a shame for someone with your experience and product volume.

 

[badpixie]

If that product contains the scenario 'One Crowded Hour' then I must disagree with you.

The layout is simple and functional in the pdf I have, and the scenario itself is very good: I think it makes an excellent 'ice breaker' for a new campaign.

It also demonstrates that it's possible to have a tense scenario without combat. Me, I don't care about pretty pictures- functional is ok if the content's good.

 

[IanBruntlett]

From what I've seen so far, Mongoose use Microsoft Word to deal with the text. I'm guessing that the maps and diagrams and art are added later, possibly inserting bitmapped images into the document.

I don't know if MS Word handles any kind of SVG (scalable vector graphics) but if it did, it is something they should consider using in future products instead of the inferior bitmapped graphics technologies.

 

[Trantor]

From what I've seen so far, Mongoose use Microsoft Word to deal with the text. I'm guessing that the maps and diagrams and art are added later, possibly inserting bitmapped images into the document.
...

That proves my concern of unprofessional layout, doesn't it?

 

[AndrewW]

Mongoose Publishing uses Adobe's In-Design for layout.

 

[MongooseMatt]

And we didn't lay out Crowded Hours - but that is not really the point.

Functional, is how I would view it. No frills, but everything is very clear as you play (which is why we went ahead with this book). And the content, frankly, is top notch.

Run the title adventure, One Crowded Hour. Really puts the players under stress, and is a seriously good game that you can insert in pretty much any campaign.

 

[mechascorpio]

I don't mean to get in your face, Matthew, but do you really feel that the graphics in Crowded Hours live up to your expectations of how a US $40 book should look? Because I could really take issue as to whether or not they are even "functional".

 

[MongooseMatt]

I don't mean to get in your face, Matthew, but do you really feel that the graphics in Crowded Hours live up to your expectations of how a US $40 book should look? Because I could really take issue as to whether or not they are even "functional".

Go ahead and get in my face - that is what I am here for!

In answer to your question, and this is just my own personal opinion, I think the maps on, say, the airship could have been better presented. On the other hand, the plans for the Duchess Salene provide everything needed in a very clear manner and the world map on page 22 is quite attractive.

Still, it is your money spent, and so your opinion that counts, not mine. Drop me a line at msprange@mongoosepublishing.com, and we'll see if we can't sort something out for you.

 

[IanBruntlett]

In UK terms, Crowded Hour works out as £7.50 per adventure with the expectancy of running each adventure for between 1-3 weeks, depending on how things work out.

Compared to TSR's Dungeon (scenario) magazine, yes, it is expensive.

I typically buy a new Traveller book once a month. Comparing it with friends who smoke and drink, they spend more in one week than I do in a month on a Traveller book.

 

[AndrewW]

I typically buy a new Traveller book once a month. Comparing it with friends who smoke and drink, they spend more in one week than I do in a month on a Traveller book.

And Traveller material lasts longer.

 

[nats]

Go ahead and get in my face - that is what I am here for!

In answer to your question, and this is just my own personal opinion, I think the maps on, say, the airship could have been better presented

If its got Mongoose on the book then its a Mongoose product and so you are effectively admitting you have released a shoddy product. I dont think 'personal opinions' are relevant here as you are a senior Mongoose representative.

I nearly bought that book and I am bloody glad I didnt now. And judging from this lack of willingness of senior people in Mongoose to accept responsibiility for your own products, I will be thinking twice about buying any more Mongoose products that I have not checked over in a shop first.

When you buy an adventure book you are paying for the illustrations, the quality of the maps, the quality of the writing not just the 'functional' plot/idea. And who says that the 'function' of a adventure book isnt also to please a reader with its illustrations? And if its badly laid out and diffuclt to follow then it certainly isnt even basically 'functional' as a Traveller adventure, as I would class this as a major function. Who are you to dictate that you have released a functional product when you have at least one person here saying you havent?

Anyone here can come up with ideas for adventures but we arent asking for money for them are we?

I havent seen this adventure myself but if he is correct in what he is saying you should be ashamed of yourselves for releasing a product like that. It also is intersting that people now seem to be getting the idea that Mongoose stands for low quality. Thats quite sad dont you think?

 

[Trantor]

Due to other posts, I should clarify my critics. I do NOT think that the scenarios in the book are bad or not worth buying them. I am sure they are good and well entertaining stories.

But: the layout quality (this is 2010, not 1980!), the horrible illustration (is there more than one?) and the lowres map (p12) - and 3rd rate ship plans (p70s) have the quality of a fan product or a 5 Euro PDF.

There are, of course, better deck plans in the book, but than you find a dark and nearly useless map on p189, or tables as on p228.

But it is a brand new hard cover book with a great cover, produced by one of the leading rpg producers, worth 40$!

I have to confess, I do feel a bit cheated. Due to the (really good) cover and the presentation as a hardcover book and the price, I had expectations which the book did not fulfill at all(right word here?). I knew the all-in-all low layout-quality of Traveller books, I have all Mongoose's Traveller books - and I don't compare it to an Earthdawn book or other state-of-the-art layouts.

I guess the solution for interested players is buying the pdf - the printed edition is just not worth it.

 

[AndrewW]

If its got Mongoose on the book then its a Mongoose product and so you are effectively admitting you have released a shoddy product. I dont think 'personal opinions' are relevant here as you are a senior Mongoose representative.

Personal opinions are relevant, everyone is different and will have a different opinion of what makes a good product. For myself I really don't care about the art, it's the content that matters I don't buy a product for the art.

I nearly bought that book and I am bloody glad I didnt now. And judging from this lack of willingness of senior people in Mongoose to accept responsibiility for your own products, I will be thinking twice about buying any more Mongoose products that I have not checked over in a shop first.

Mongoose Publishing does except responsibility for the products they published. Go ahead and email msprange if you don't feel you got your moneys worth on something and you will get taken care of. They have made offers before such as replacing the first printing of High Guard and throwing in a free product as well.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I havent seen this adventure myself but if he is correct in what he is saying you should be ashamed of yourselves for releasing a product like that. It also is intersting that people now seem to be getting the idea that Mongoose stands for low quality. Thats quite sad dont you think?

Well, first I think you should take a look at it before forming an opinion. Second, I have invited him to contact me for a resolution. One way or another, we will make sure he is happy with his purchase - we always aim to do that.

 

[nats]

I havent seen this adventure myself but if he is correct in what he is saying you should be ashamed of yourselves for releasing a product like that. It also is intersting that people now seem to be getting the idea that Mongoose stands for low quality. Thats quite sad dont you think?

Well, first I think you should take a look at it before forming an opinion. Second, I have invited him to contact me for a resolution. One way or another, we will make sure he is happy with his purchase - we always aim to do that.

I will do that. I cannot for the sake of me understand people releasing substandard products. Its happening a heck of a lot lately, especially in the PC Gaming market. And now for my beloved Traveller as well. Whatever next? Perhaps the recession has a lot to do with it - people becoming desperate to stay in business. I still think it is very sad.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I will do that. I cannot for the sake of me understand people releasing substandard products. Its happening a heck of a lot lately, especially in the PC Gaming market. And now for my beloved Traveller as well. Whatever next? Perhaps the recession has a lot to do with it - people becoming desperate to stay in business. I still think it is very sad.

I really don't believe it is substandard - I have been using the book myself (the adventures really are very good).

However, we guarantee all of our books, and if you pick this one up and are in any way unhappy with it, contact us. We will always work until you are happy with the result - there should be no risk to you in buying any of our products.

 

[nats]

Well as I dont have any means of getting out to view this item 'in the flesh' at the moment I cant argue. Perhaps Trantor could paste up a couple of examples of the art/setting out of the book so I could see what he means, would help inform me/others..

Probably like others here, in this specialist type of market I am reliant on other peoples recommendations/ Amazon reviews of Traveller products that are not often available for easily previewing in a local shop and have often to be ordered by mail order. If someone complains about something that is often enough to put me off a purchase, I have high expectations for what I expect to get for my hard earned cash.

To date I havent had much to complain about regarding Mongoose products I have bought (other than I have an old Core Rulebook with rubbish illustrations by the sound of it) but thats only because I managed to avoid a couple of books I saw in Travelling Man after being able to gloss them over first. Having almost been burned by buying Fighting Ships I will be more wary about buying Mongoose products without seeing them first. Certainly some of my books have a hell of a lot of errata scribbled in them now. If I knew what I do now before I bought the books its doubtful I would have bought a couple of them. This also makes me wary about buying without viewing these days, or at least holding off to read comments on this forum first.

Same for PC games - these days I wouldnt dream of buying a game without reading a review first. Other than Civ 5 that is, I bought that one immediately because of the reputation of the developer. Reputation means A LOT.

 

[badpixie]

I already had the 4 adventures downloaded as PDF's from Drivethru; individually they each cost about £4.50 in real money ($8.97) which is peanuts really.

Two of the adventures are very, very good (Type S, One Crowded Hour). The other two (Wintermoon Incident, Fiddlers Green) I only downloaded very recently and have not given much attention to yet.

Layout if functional and thats fine with me.

Obviously the layout in the compendium may be different but the content of the adventures is of high quality in my view: they are well written.

We have probably all purchased glossy colour high colour books with crap or infantile content, so I am not complaining about scenarios which are actually very good but with functional production values. If you want nice pictures watch a movie.

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

The adventures are very good, in general I can take or leave pretty pictures in games books.

But, (and it is a big but) the map of the Hanley Avatrix will be difficult to use as presented (and because of the movement in that adventure will be neccessary. Haven't decided quite how to do this one yet, when we run the adventure (and it is clearl going to be far too much fun not to) I will either massively simplify the plan and go for a series of A3 or A2 blow ups, or perhaps see what the plan as presented looks like when increased in size. Because at times groups may be close to each other but on different levels, I feel accurate plotting is important (but that's just the old wargamer in me coming out). Or perhaps I should just go with the flow and adopt a free form story telling approach and ditch the maps.

Frankly, still think it was a good buy.

Egil

 

[thraxis]

Just to be fair, One crowded Hour, and the other 2 adventures mentioned in this thread are conversions to Mgt from T20 adventures of the same name. I have the T20 versions and the maps are all alright (Pdf versions). I don't remeber there being deckplans in the Hour adventure however ( will have to find it [ I printed it] and get back to you.). Now wether Mongoose has expanded on the origional or not I can't comment as I don't own It yet.