Crew Quality
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Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
CQ affecting boarding actions and planetary assaults would require some major re-jigging of the associated mechanics. I like the idea of elite marine units for ships, though.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
That's an elite crew, though. Veterans of a dozen engagements at least. I'd say they'd know the tricks for getting through stealth.
In fact making stealth a CQ check would be a pretty good fix to my mind. Just make the stealth stat the target number and add the scout and fighter modifiers as normal.
In fact making stealth a CQ check would be a pretty good fix to my mind. Just make the stealth stat the target number and add the scout and fighter modifiers as normal.
CQ6 is a roll of a dice during campaign fleet selection...
If my opponent took ships with CQ 6, I'd just make a tactical withdrawl immediately. Minbari don't stand a chance without their stealth. It would totally ruin the game.
Likewise, CQ2 or 3 ships would just not fight Minbari, cos they'd never beat stealth.
If my opponent took ships with CQ 6, I'd just make a tactical withdrawl immediately. Minbari don't stand a chance without their stealth. It would totally ruin the game.
Likewise, CQ2 or 3 ships would just not fight Minbari, cos they'd never beat stealth.
You would never want to fight the Vree or the ISA then. The Vree with their +1 to crew quality checks, which under your scenario would likely apply to firing and steath checks, and the ISA who are +1 to their CQ level to start. Since CQ5 is pretty much the Standard for the ISA, they would be very, very, nasty.
Dave
Dave
Wouldn't mean ships with elite would have a big target on them and there isn't that many of them especially if you target them first since they are the biggest threat. With lesser crews they would need a 6 and then add the modifers for fighters and scouts. Miltary grade crews can get to 2+ easily. It's not like there is a whole fleet of elite ships facing you it's more likely to be a mix. Some ships will struggle others won't.Burger said:
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Burger said:
That depends entirely on the target number, which could be anything up to 10-ish for the best stealth suites going. You could retain the range modifiers so making it easier to detect stealthy targets at close range and harder at long range. Granted you'd get situations where you couldn't break stealth with the ships at your disposal, but that doesn't alarm me. You'd have to factor that into your planning when selecting forces for the mission.
Commador Q
Mongoose
i don't care for the CQ vs stealth idea, because there isn't all that much a crew can do to break stealth, your weapons can either get a lock on or they can't, and if anything is going to help it's most likely part of the targeting system rather than the guy who pushes the button that matters.
personally i'd rather see a larger veriety of special actions to help with things like boarding action and stealth/anti-stealth
for example:
Support Ground forces (CQ 10)
The ship dedicates it's CNC systems to aiding it's meriens abord enemy vessils or it's troops on a planet's surface. As a result all friendly troops get bonus equal to thsi ships command bonus +1, to boarding action and planetary asault roles.
(i only partly understand planetary assault and boarding action so this rule will need to be reworded)
Run Hot (automatic)
This ship perpously runs it's engins and econdary systems at full capacity with the intent of increasing it's sencore cross-section. As a result stealthed ships in close proxcimity are even more difficult to dectct. All stealthed ships within 6 inches get +1 to their Stealth values.
Firing Pattern Alpha (automatic)
By firing in a predetermined firing pattern the captain hopes to catch a stealthed enemy ship with some portion of the available fire-power rather than risk missing with all weaponry. When this Special action is declaired it must be targeted against an enemy ship. You may only fire on that ship and all your weapons systems are reduced to 1/2 their attack dice, but in exchainge you may ignore any stealth and dodge scores on the targeted ship. The attempting ship may not make anny turns when attampting thsi SA.
personally i'd rather see a larger veriety of special actions to help with things like boarding action and stealth/anti-stealth
for example:
Support Ground forces (CQ 10)
The ship dedicates it's CNC systems to aiding it's meriens abord enemy vessils or it's troops on a planet's surface. As a result all friendly troops get bonus equal to thsi ships command bonus +1, to boarding action and planetary asault roles.
(i only partly understand planetary assault and boarding action so this rule will need to be reworded)
Run Hot (automatic)
This ship perpously runs it's engins and econdary systems at full capacity with the intent of increasing it's sencore cross-section. As a result stealthed ships in close proxcimity are even more difficult to dectct. All stealthed ships within 6 inches get +1 to their Stealth values.
Firing Pattern Alpha (automatic)
By firing in a predetermined firing pattern the captain hopes to catch a stealthed enemy ship with some portion of the available fire-power rather than risk missing with all weaponry. When this Special action is declaired it must be targeted against an enemy ship. You may only fire on that ship and all your weapons systems are reduced to 1/2 their attack dice, but in exchainge you may ignore any stealth and dodge scores on the targeted ship. The attempting ship may not make anny turns when attampting thsi SA.
The guys on the sensor's probably could help clean up the signatures and whats the real one & whats false. If you totaly rely on comps whats the point of crew quality.
I agree on there needs to be more SA's. We have more in our house rules and it becomes more tactical as it's about when and what SA's you used than the actual ships but those damn dice still have a lot to say.
Run Silent helps stealth but it is absolute rubbish SA with no point what so ever. I've seen used once in a year and half.
With the Marines thought that would be simpler if Miltary grade kill on 5+, Vets would 4+, Elites 3+ possibly green would 5+ and the others would 6+. Don't think this will alter to much as there isn't much boarding that goes on.
I agree on there needs to be more SA's. We have more in our house rules and it becomes more tactical as it's about when and what SA's you used than the actual ships but those damn dice still have a lot to say.
Run Silent helps stealth but it is absolute rubbish SA with no point what so ever. I've seen used once in a year and half.
With the Marines thought that would be simpler if Miltary grade kill on 5+, Vets would 4+, Elites 3+ possibly green would 5+ and the others would 6+. Don't think this will alter to much as there isn't much boarding that goes on.
Commador Q
Mongoose
Target said:
maybe but thst sounds more like a special action than an inate benefit to having high CQ to me.
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
It depends how you imagine things working. To go a very long way back, to the age of sail, RN ships of the line seldom outshot the French and Spanish by less than three to two, frequently as much as four to one, from basically identical ships, the only difference discipline, training, and willingness to fight- in other words, crew quality.
Even now, the very best SSN crew, say, can only make their equipment perform to it's limits. It is terrifyingly easy to do less than that, through stupidity or inaction to leave things undone or badly done, and get killed thereby.
I could make a case that CQ should modify the basic stats of the ship. A good engineering crew can get more power out of their engine plant resulting in higher speed and possibly more turns, a bad crew lose speed, lose agility, do shoddy damage control. A good gun crew shoots more accurately and serves their weapons more quickly, achieving the equivalent of extra AP rating, more AD, more range, additional traits- all of naval history shows that skill defeats incompetence, consistently and often against what seem to be heavy material odds. The difference between a CQ 2 and CQ 6 crew should be bigger than the difference between a Hermes and a Marathon.
On the other hand, don't hold your breath waiting for a neat, elegant system to model this.
Even now, the very best SSN crew, say, can only make their equipment perform to it's limits. It is terrifyingly easy to do less than that, through stupidity or inaction to leave things undone or badly done, and get killed thereby.
I could make a case that CQ should modify the basic stats of the ship. A good engineering crew can get more power out of their engine plant resulting in higher speed and possibly more turns, a bad crew lose speed, lose agility, do shoddy damage control. A good gun crew shoots more accurately and serves their weapons more quickly, achieving the equivalent of extra AP rating, more AD, more range, additional traits- all of naval history shows that skill defeats incompetence, consistently and often against what seem to be heavy material odds. The difference between a CQ 2 and CQ 6 crew should be bigger than the difference between a Hermes and a Marathon.
On the other hand, don't hold your breath waiting for a neat, elegant system to model this.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
You develop one and shout at Matt till he adopts it... :wink:
CZuschlag
Mongoose
I continue to stand by the above statement. Any circumstance. Get me a d20 system where I can make tiny differences and I'll bite, but not before then. For example, a +1 modifier for troops running rampant (unopposed) on an enemy-controlled ship would make them unkillable by non-troop crew members -- 1 marine taking down a War ship? Doesn't make any sense, and reeks of Edam.
Cheese, that is.
Cheese, that is.
Here's my thoughts on the troops.
The Veteran Primus cruiser has been spd 0 and unluckly the nasty evil T'Loth just happened to be lurking by and decides to board.
Sends 10 troops across, the primus fights first with 5 troops kills 2-3 on av and then the remaining 7-8 fight fight back killing 2-3 on av. Hasn't changed a great deal but to me seems a little more likely. An Elite crew is going to have a better chance as they should. Imagine the elite T'loth a ship to feared. It's not like people have zounds of elite crews.
On the plantery assault like space station their troops can only be miltary but you could send your elite stormtroopers to take the planet. Thought it would make boarding actions far more interesting.
Thought about CQ enabling stealth to be better max 6 as this would even it out a little but mainly i had this idea for troops more than stealth and the new stealth rules would make it a little easy as it won't be that hard to get to 2+ anyway.
The Veteran Primus cruiser has been spd 0 and unluckly the nasty evil T'Loth just happened to be lurking by and decides to board.
Sends 10 troops across, the primus fights first with 5 troops kills 2-3 on av and then the remaining 7-8 fight fight back killing 2-3 on av. Hasn't changed a great deal but to me seems a little more likely. An Elite crew is going to have a better chance as they should. Imagine the elite T'loth a ship to feared. It's not like people have zounds of elite crews.
On the plantery assault like space station their troops can only be miltary but you could send your elite stormtroopers to take the planet. Thought it would make boarding actions far more interesting.
Thought about CQ enabling stealth to be better max 6 as this would even it out a little but mainly i had this idea for troops more than stealth and the new stealth rules would make it a little easy as it won't be that hard to get to 2+ anyway.
