Creature movement

[ShawnDriscoll]

I think there needs to be some more guidance in the core booka bout how to decide how fast a creature/monster/animal is (personally, I like the term Creature) similar to the Size/Hits table.

CT had a Speed 1 through 4 I think, where humans were 1 (6m per combat turn).

OR, just give us some good examples: A horse, a dog, a rat, a falcon, an eel, a Shark, so that we have something to base our speed "guesses" on.

Let's start with humans. What should their speed be?

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Posted in the rules at 6m per combat round (so 1 meter per second flat out). That means a 10 second 100 meter dash which is pretty damn fast if you ask me for a typical person...

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Posted in the rules at 6m per combat round (so 1 meter per second flat out). That means a 10 second 100 meter dash which is pretty damn fast if you ask me for a typical person...

Umm. Check your math.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

Yeah, I see that now... 100 meters in 100 seconds. Walking pace?

Most creatures seem to "walk" at about the same pace, but they can run at much different speeds and how long they can maintain that speed varies also.

Movement in general probably could do with a good cleanup.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Movement in general probably could do with a good cleanup.

Let's start with humans. What should their speed be?

 

[hdan]

Let's start with humans. What should their speed be?

The speed of a human walking at a "combat advance"?

What, maybe 3mph (sorry, hazards of an American education), which is around 1.3m/s. I suppose if you want that sort of movement to require a minor action, then let's call it 1m/s.

So perhaps 1m/s is a reasonable walking advance speed. Which coincidentally is what the Human speed is right now. We could raise that to 1.5 m/s to get a "Tactical Advance", which is probably what we should really be going for, given the usual reasons for tracking movement rate.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Let's start with humans. What should their speed be?

The speed of a human walking at a "combat advance"?

What, maybe 3mph (sorry, hazards of an American education), which is around 1.3m/s. I suppose if you want that sort of movement to require a minor action, then let's call it 1m/s.

So perhaps 1m/s is a reasonable walking advance speed. Which coincidentally is what the Human speed is right now. We could raise that to 1.5 m/s to get a "Tactical Advance", which is probably what we should really be going for, given the usual reasons for tracking movement rate.

In your view then, human speed is walking pretty much rather than running for combat rounds. What about the speed for animals? What about running speeds then for either group? What should they be for a combat round?

 

[-Daniel-]

So perhaps 1m/s is a reasonable walking advance speed. Which coincidentally is what the Human speed is right now. We could raise that to 1.5 m/s to get a "Tactical Advance", which is probably what we should really be going for, given the usual reasons for tracking movement rate.

Ok I just want to make sure I am following the conversation. You are attempting to use humanoids as the benchmark to see if animal speeds seem realistic?

 

[hdan]

In your view then, human speed is walking pretty much rather than running for combat rounds. What about the speed for animals? What about running speeds then for either group? What should they be for a combat round?

It's not just my view, I maintain that it's the rules' view. You can move (a minor action) up to 3 times in a round, which sets the maximum speed at about 3x walking speed. If normal movement is running, then what is 3x? According the the web, the average man runs a 8mph, which about works out to a rate of 4 m/s. A little faster than Traveller's 3xMove, but probably close enough.

Also - I'm only addressing the human speed in this thread because it was brought up as a starting place by Mr. Driscoll, and discussed by RTT. I agree that it's relevant because of the humanoid-centric world of Traveller characters, where the rules exist to present challenges to the PCs.

Back to animals:

In reality, what players are mostly interested in is if they can outrun a creature, either on foot or in a vehicle. The original Traveller scheme of representing a creature's speed in "multiples of average human speed" is workable, except that slower creatures aren't easy to represent. (The old scheme had no fractions, if I recall.)

If animals may also take a Significant+Minor action, and that they can choose to exchange Significant for 2 Minors, then we have our answer for running.

It seems like it would be in the spirit of the new rules to not rate a creature's speed directly, but to give it Fast or Slow traits to show its speed relative to a humanoid. Then let it run or walk the way a humanoid would. After all, that seems to be how size is handled.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

You can move (a minor action) up to 3 times in a round, which sets the maximum speed at about 3x walking speed.

I'm trying to visualize a human moving 6 meters in 6 seconds (a combat round) and they are also moving 3 more times in that same combat round in addition to the moving they are already doing.

 

[hdan]

You can move (a minor action) up to 3 times in a round, which sets the maximum speed at about 3x walking speed.

I'm trying to visualize a human moving 6 meters in 6 seconds (a combat round) and they are also moving 3 more times in that same combat round in addition to the moving they are already doing.

I wonder what game you're thinking of that gives you a free move? Because in MgT, movement costs a minor action, as stated on Page 72.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I don't care what MgT says. I was just going by the 3 minor actions you mentioned. The playtest rules already say humans move 6 meters per combat round.

 

[hdan]

I don't care what MgT says. I was just going by the 3 minor actions you mentioned. The playtest rules already say humans move 6 meters per combat round.

I'm not sure what we're arguing about at this point, or if we're even arguing. So just to make sure we're not at cross purposes, and assuming we're still talking about determining sensible movement rates in the playtest rules:

The playtest document says you can take up to 3 minor actions, and that Movement (6 meters) is a Minor Action.

Movement:

The Traveller may move a number of metres up to his Movement score (for humans and most humanoid Travellers, this will be 6 metres). Difficult terrain, such as ruins or mud will halve a Traveller’s Movement. Being prone will also quarter a Traveller’s Movement score.

Note that some aliens and animals have different Movement scores and this will be noted in their descriptions.

So we're in agreement that humans move 6 meters per minor action, as stated in the play test document, and that one may take up to 3 minor actions per round if you forgo your significant action?

If the rules somewhere else limit you to only 6 meters per combat round, then that's probably a typo. A quick search of the PDF didn't find "6 meters" anywhere else, but it could have been stated differently. If the rules preclude you from taking the same minor action more than once per round, they probably ought to say that as well.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Ok. 3 X 6 meters in 6 seconds. So humans move 3 meters per second. This must be the maximum speed for humans on foot it looks like. Running or walking are not being assumed. It's just called moving.

If this is the accepted speed for a human, then animal speeds should be based from that accordingly. Some humans and animals will have Athletic skills that would tweak their movement.

So an animal with speed of 1 moves 1/2 meter per second. Probably, this is the slowest max speed in the game for such living things.

I'm curious if players that want realistic animal speeds are all right, first of all, with the human speed?

 

[MongooseMatt]

Couple of things here.

Remember, movement is a Minor Action, and you can have three of those in a round if you do nothing else. A human can run 18 metres in a round.

Second, I _really_ wanted animal creation to be as free form as possible to give refs maximum flexibility to the extent that an animal really can be created on the fly. That table was the result of the first round of playtesting, and it was always my fear refs would have a tendency to stick to it rather than go off on their own imaginative courses - which is what I was after.

Really going to resist putting a Movement column in there because that is something the ref really should tend to - he does have humans and the other animals to base the stat off, and you can be sure we will be adding more in future books (more animals in High and Dry for a start!).

 

[-Daniel-]

... and you can be sure we will be adding more in future books (more animals in High and Dry for a start!).

Maybe even the Beaked Monkey for old time sake. :lol:

 

[Annatar Giftbringer]

... and you can be sure we will be adding more in future books (more animals in High and Dry for a start!).

Maybe even the Beaked Monkey for old time sake. :lol:

Ok, this beaked monkey keeps popping up... (Well, I think I've seen it twice at least...) what is it? I'm curious, and I wasn't around during old times? I need to know

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

The Beeker was in one of the first Journals of the Traveller's Aid Society from Classic Traveller. I want to say 1978?

SOME of the Beekers (the black ones I think) could actually bump your PSI score similar to a Familiar in a fantasy game.

Yep, lots of good fun with a Beeker as a ship's pet.

 

[-Daniel-]

... and you can be sure we will be adding more in future books (more animals in High and Dry for a start!).

Maybe even the Beaked Monkey for old time sake. :lol:

Ok, this beaked monkey keeps popping up... (Well, I think I've seen it twice at least...) what is it? I'm curious, and I wasn't around during old times? I need to know

Sorry, that is just me having Grognard moments. They would be super easy to stat up because they are just small monkey like animals. I just loved the whole idea back in the day. Had one show up on the PC's ship. Fun.

And Rikki Tikki Traveller is right, it was in the JTAS No. 3 and I believe also in one of the "Best Of" issues as well.